Battle of Two Suns

A thread of 4 messages, 28 June 1990 to 2 July 1990, in the order they were sent.

#1365 Battle of Two Suns

With Regard to Adrian Hurt's commentary on the battle of Two Suns:
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
battlefleets doing in interstellar space?  (Apart from blowing holes in each
other! :-)  I thought the usual procedure was, go to the enemy's system,
clobber any of his ships you find there, and then invade the planet(s) of
interest.  Meeting an enemy fleet halfway between two systems just doesn't
happen, unless they've previously agreed to do so and agreed on co-ordinates
of where to meet.  "Sir, Admiral Zdiebeshatl calls you a good-for-nothing
dead-head, and challenges you and this fleet to a duel at the co-ordinates
in this flight plan datapack."
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      In my opinion this could not have happened, and is really an artifact
of an earlier conception of the game.  The particular entry he cites was
culled from Adventure Module 1 (The Kinunir), which was issued before High Guard
came out (I think), and before Trillion Credit Squadron (certainly).  The mere
fact that that module describes a 1250ton vessel as a "cruiser" compared to
the later 50,000ton+ cruisers, and equips it with a black glode marks it as,
shall we say, a trifle obsolete.  (However--the Traveller Adventure includes
a battle as a deep space refueling rendevous).

                                            Rob Dean

#1370 Re: Battle of Two Suns

>Date:     Thu, 28 Jun 90 9:10:51 EDT
>From: "Robert S. Dean" [email removed]
>Subject: (1365)  Battle of Two Suns

>With Regard to Adrian Hurt's commentary on the battle of Two Suns:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
>Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
>and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
>battlefleets doing in interstellar space?  (Apart from blowing holes in each
>other! :-)

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>      In my opinion this could not have happened, and is really an artifact
>of an earlier conception of the game.  The particular entry he cites was
>culled from Adventure Module 1 (The Kinunir), which was issued before High Guar
   d
>came out (I think), and before Trillion Credit Squadron (certainly).  The mere
>fact that that module describes a 1250ton vessel as a "cruiser" compared to
>the later 50,000ton+ cruisers, and equips it with a black glode marks it as,
>shall we say, a trifle obsolete.  (However--the Traveller Adventure includes
>a battle as a deep space refueling rendevous).

Well, there is one thing to consider about this.  In space, stars are rarely
one parsec apart.  I am not sure about the distance between Yres and Menorb,
but for arguments sake, lets assume that it is one hex on the star map.  The
stars could be any place within that hex.  So lets say that this is the setup:

      +-----+
     /       \
    <   Yres  >
     \    *  /
      +-----+
     /     * \
    <  Menorb >
     \       /
      +-----+

The asterik indicates where the stars are.  It is possible that they are close
to being a binary system, just that one doesn't rotate around another.  In
which case the battle could have occured in deep space.

As far as the cruiser comments go, in Suppement 9, Fighting Ships you will see
a whole line of cruisers ranging from light cruisers to heavy crusiers.  The
Kinur (sp) was a colonial cruiser and could have been listed at the 1250 ton
displacement, though I seem to remember it being larger.  (Ah the problems of
not having your reference material handy)  Regardless, High Guard and TCS were
both founded upon the earlier works.  There is a lot of contenuity.  In fact, I
seem to remember the Kinur using the High Guard statistics (don't quote me on
that one).

Just my 0.02 credit's worth for the sake of arguing.... :-)

        Anton Devious UPP: B89F98
        Executive Planner for Interstellar Applications
        "Superior Intellects for Superior problems"
        "You have a problem, I have a plan!"

... An expert from A. Devious' business card
- --
Rob Miracle              | Bitnet   : [email removed]    CIS: [email removed]
Programmer/Analyst-II    | INTERNET : [email removed]
University of Louisville | UUCP     : ...[email removed]

#1374 Re: (1370) Re: Battle of Two Suns

 In Archive-Message-Number 1370, Rob Miracle writes:
 >
 >As far as the cruiser comments go, in Suppement 9, Fighting Ships you
 >will see a whole line of cruisers ranging from light cruisers to
 >heavy crusiers.  The Kinur (sp) was a colonial cruiser and could have
 >been listed at the 1250 ton displacement, though I seem to remember
 >it being larger.  (Ah the problems of not having your reference
 >material handy)

     Fortunately, mine is just across the room.  :-)  Looking in my
copy of Adventure 1:  _The Kinunir_, I see that the ship is listed as
being 1200 tons.  There are no High Guard stats.  The copyright date
on the adventure is 1979, while the date on my (first printing) copy
of _High Guard_ is 1980.

 >Regardless, High Guard and TCS were both founded upon the earlier
 >works.  There is a lot of contenuity.  In fact, I seem to remember
 >the Kinur using the High Guard statistics (don't quote me on that
 >one).

     It may have been redone in High Guard form, but I think the above
dates show that the original design predates Book 5.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  [email removed]
[address removed]
PHONE:  [phone removed] (voice)

#1446 Re: Battle of Two Suns

Rob Miracle [email removed] writes:

> >With Regard to Adrian Hurt's commentary on the battle of Two Suns:
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Now for the question.  The final battle of the Fourth Frontier War was the
> >Battle of Two Suns, so called because it took place somewhere between Yres
> >and Menorb (see Library Data A-M, and Adventure 1 - Kinunir).  What were two
> >battlefleets doing in interstellar space?
> >other! :-)
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >								The mere
> >fact that that module describes a 1250ton vessel as a "cruiser" compared to
> >the later 50,000ton+ cruisers, and equips it with a black glode marks it as,
> >shall we say, a trifle obsolete.

Even MegaTraveller refers to the 400 ton Patrol Cruiser.  It all depends on
what sort of cruiser you mean.  "Cruiser means whatever I point at and say
'cruiser'." :-)

> Well, there is one thing to consider about this.  In space, stars are rarely
> one parsec apart. ...
> 					   It is possible that they are close
> to being a binary system, just that one doesn't rotate around another.  In
> which case the battle could have occured in deep space.

How close do they have to be, to be a binary system?  In Book 6, Scouts, the
companion star in a binary or trinary system may be up to 6000 AU away from
the main star.  Even planetary orbits out to 367,711 million km (2,458 AU)
are listed.  Now, assuming the ship has 6G acceleration (which the Kinunir
hasn't), the time to travel that sort of distance is:

time	= 2*sqr(distance/acceleration)
	= 2*sqr(367,711*10**9 / 60)
	= 4951168 seconds
	= 57 days
	= a whole lot longer than doing it by jump.

Putting it another way, you use a jump even to get from one side of a big
system to another.  If the stars are far enough apart to count as two
separate systems, you don't use manoeuvre drive unless your jump is out.
If you do, expect to be doing it for a few months.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  [email removed]
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   [email removed]