FIGHTING SHIPS(??)

A thread of 3 messages, 10 September 1990 to 12 September 1990, in the order they were sent.

#1545 FIGHTING SHIPS(??)

I was just looking over FIGHTING SHIPS OF THE SHATTERED IMPERIUM again this
weekend.  I commented once in an earlier message that it had so disgusted me
that I didn't look too closely at it when I bought it.

Well, that verdict stands.  If there is anyone out there who is thinking about
buying this piece of trash, I would strongly recommend against it.

Between the fact that the designers did not incorporate the errata that was
available into the designs (such as reduced gunnery crews, reduced power cost
of meson screens), the out and out typos that occurred presumably as a result
of copying and modifiying the files on a word processor (and I know...I've
made similar mistakes--but for a commercial product I don't think it is
excusable) such as the 30,000 ton tanker "battlerider"  (I think it gets
carried in a battlerider slot on a tender) that says it has 300,000 tons
of fuel available for distribution, or the number of flight crew on any
ship in the book (always identicle to the number of gunnery crew--obvious
error, but what should it be?  There is no way of reconstructing because
some ships carry thins like 100 or 200 or 1000 ton subsidiary craft whose
designs are not included, and therefore whose crew requirements are unknown.)
The crew numbers never add up to the total on large ships, and the control
sections are completely screwy.  Is there a rule that I missed somewhere that
says that you can't add special displays (HUD, etc.) without having an
equal number of conventional panels?

Not to mention design problems.  First off, I know there is a rule of ambiguous
meaning in the narrative section of the vehicle design that says "added armor
may not be more than 5 times the tech level).  Now, I've always pretty much
ignored it, since it never says whether that means total armor, or armor
above 40 for a space craft but above 0 for a vehicle, or something else
entirely.  Assuming that the ">40 for a spacecraft" is correct, the armor
levels on most of the battleships are impossible.  In any case, if you read the
combat rules, they are excessive:

     Armor 52 (-4 on damage) is the level required to prevent large
     weapons from getting interior explosions on the surface damage
     table.

     Armor 82 (-14 on damage) is the level required to prevent any non-
     spinal mount from doing damage on the surface or radiation damage
     table. (Meson guns excepted)

     Armor 100 (-20 on damage) is the level required to prevent any
     spinal mount or nuclear missile form doing any damage on the
     the surface damage table.

It is certainly a matter of tradeoff as to what level of armor you elect, but
there is no purpose served in the game by going over 100.  Well, you say, armor
can be reduced as a result of critical hits.  Yes...but the only thing that
will cause crtitical hits on a vehicle with armor 100 are meson guns, and
any hit by a large meson gun will put a ship out of action for the rest of
a battle, same as with the HIGH GUARD rules.

Since meson guns are the main ship killers (as before), there is almsot no point
in fielding a battleship without the maximum allowable meson screens, and even
that doesn't help a whole lot.  I played out *a lot* of combat with the HIGH
GUARD rules, and the new rules have not changed these points.

If a few of us got together, we could recreate the entire contents of the book
(FIGHTING SHIPS(?) that is) in a couple of weeks.  Any takers?

Rob Dean

#1558 Re: (1545) FIGHTING SHIPS(??)

Robert S. Dean writes:

>If a few of us got together, we could recreate the entire contents of the book
>(FIGHTING SHIPS(?) that is) in a couple of weeks.  Any takers?

You bet.  I had been thinking of going over it myself, just to get some
reasonable
large ships, and it would be a lot easier with more people.  Working together
will also allow debate about design priorities and more effective error
checking.
Send me email, and we can work out details. My email address is
[email removed].

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

#1560 Re: FIGHTING SHIPS(??)

> From: "Robert S. Dean" [email removed]
> Subject: (1545)  FIGHTING SHIPS(??)
>
> If a few of us got together, we could recreate the entire contents of the book
> (FIGHTING SHIPS(?) that is) in a couple of weeks.  Any takers?

  IMHO, the greatest goof in FSOTSI is that it just is a dry listing of ship
data. The ships have no history, no names, no commanders, no victories, no
defeats, no life, just long listings of how they perform, listings which, to
add injury to insult, also happens to be the largest collections of bugs I've
seen this side of a TI99 'computer'.

  The ships in the old Fighting Ships had names, some of them had stories about
past exploits and tactics. They felt alive.

  So, while I'm interested in participating in the reconstruction, I propose
that we also/ reconstruct the ships from the old Fighting Ships, and, if anyone
has the data on them, the large ship designs that has been published in other
products like Spinward Campaign and so on.

> Rob Dean

- -bertil-