Re: 2075-2077 Black Globes

A thread of 3 messages, 16 January 1991 to 28 January 1991, in the order they were sent.

#2081 Re: 2075-2077 Black Globes

Mark quoted from Genie:

> Then there's the famed "Black Globe World" in the Vargr Extents. On that world
> (Tuglikki 0904), a Vargr researcher activated a black globe and it promptly
> expanded to engulf a radius of 50 km from its location within 24 hours. That
> was in 973 (Imperial). That black globe engulfed the entire world within a
> year and kept growing, although at a slower rate. The black globe has reached
> 20,000 km in size and continues to grow at a rate of about 20 km per standard
> year.  In about 2 trillion years, assuming the globe's rate remains constant,
> it will have engulfed all of charted space. Recently, however -- for some
> unknown reason -- the globe's expansion rate has been increasing dramatically.
> Many researchers theorize this increased expansion rate means the globe is
> about to "go into overload." A globe of this size, if it releases all of its
> aborbed energy in one sudden blast, would devastate the entire parsec (both
> star systems).

Now the question comes up about what happens to gravity with black globes
and what are the effects?

I propose that a black globe reduces any factor of "g" (the gravitational
constant) from external bodies, to zero.  This makes any black globe
maintain its proper motion with respect to the universe at large.  Thus this
Vargr black globe would not be staying in Tuglikki 0904 but would be
travelling at some velocity (probably large) depending on the proper motion
of the star system it is in, depending on the proper motion of the galaxy,
and depending on the proper motion of the galactic cluster!

So the question you have to ask yourselves is, "Is it heading my way and
can I sell my property before it gets here or someone else finds out!!!"

> M.MIKESH                     at 16:53 EDT
>
>  Subject: Black Globes
>
>  Joe -
>       <Of course, one thing everyone has been assuming is that the
>...
>       <In actuality, I see the energy sinks of the owning vessel going
>  into an overload condition if it enters a world's atmosphere.>
>       You're right.  I just ran through the equations, and what I found
>  was that the energy in de-orbiting and that which a J-1 ship could
>  absorb was well over 10 million times in difference.
>       The scarry thing about this was that the lion's share of the
>  energy was in the form of potential energy ( E=mgh ).  This means that
>  a globed ship had best stay away from a planet.  A slight change in
>  depth to a gravity well could spell doom.

And I would have to disagree with the designers on this point.  Potential
energy would have no effect (or at least it would if one assumed my
previous point of reducing external gravitational constants to zero.)
Hence g=0 thus E (potential) = 0.  Now the kinetic energy traveling
through the atmosphere is another matter all together and I am in
agreement...don't travel to a planet's surface with your black globe
on!

                     *-=Carl=-*

		     [email removed]

#2086 Re: (2081) Black Globes

I hate to duck into these techno debates, but I have a few questions and/or
comments about this one involving the force field generator.

>I propose that  a black globe reduces any factor of "g" (the gravitational
>constant) from external bodies, to zero.  This makes any black globe
>maintain its proper motion with respect to the universe at large.  Thus this
>Vargr black globe would not be staying in Tuglikki 0904 but would be
>travelling at some velocity (probably large) depending on the proper motion
>of the star system it is in, depending on the proper motion of the galaxy,
>and depending on the proper motion of the galactic cluster!

Ummm, proper motion relative to what frame of reference?  I vaguely
recall something from freshman physics that there is no universal frame
of reference...proper motion is always relative to _something_, and
I vaguely recall that this something can be picked arbitrarily.  There
shouldn't be a universe at large frame of reference then, right?
Maybe I'm wrong -- one of you physics majors might want to jump in here.

[Right on, in Einsteinian General Relativity, all frames of reference
are valid - there is no "master" frame of reference.  The Universe's
rules apparently hold true for all observers, and there is no underlying
"grid" or "mesh" to the Universe that is special or fixed.  All events
in the Universe happen relative to each other.  Nonetheless, there are
several holes in EGR in Traveller.  Perhaps there is a non-relativistic
universal frame of reference available through a small oversight in
Einsteinian theory.  How else can you suspend your disbelief that matter
can travel faster than light? That reactionless thrusters can function?
How many holes and hand-waving you permit in your campaign is a function
of the Player's and Ref's ability to suspend their disbelief.  -- James]

Another question for physics majors...can the PE problem be gotten rid of
if the potential energy of a system involving a large body and a bg'ed
ship is set at zero for the ship arbitrarily, and the PE is assigned to
the planet whose gravity the ship is falling into?  Then the ship would
just have to worry about the KE when the planet hit it, right?  (Sort
of thinking about the problem backwards.)  It's been a while, so I may
be missing something important here....but if that works, maybe it solves
the problems about approaching planets.

Personally, if I was using a globe, I'd be worried about KE weapons --
but then, it might be a bad idea to have it on a high rate of flicker
if I thought they knew where I was.  Then again, if it can nail the
capacitors, it can probably get me anyway!

- - --Steve

#2112 Re: (2086) Re: (2081) Black Globes

First, let me say that I am not a physics-type, so don't blame me if I'm all
wet...(notice how I get the disclaimer in at the beginning?  :)   Someone
posted a note about something (see how scientifically specific I can be? ) to
which James (hi James) inserted a comment that has jogged my memory...
>
>[Right on, in Einsteinian General Relativity, all frames of reference
>are valid - there is no "master" frame of reference.  The Universe's
>rules apparently hold true for all observers, and there is no underlying
>"grid" or "mesh" to the Universe that is special or fixed.  All events
>in the Universe happen relative to each other.  Nonetheless, there are
>several holes in EGR in Traveller.  Perhaps there is a non-relativistic
>universal frame of reference available through a small oversight in
>Einsteinian theory.  How else can you suspend your disbelief that matter
>can travel faster than light? That reactionless thrusters can function?
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>How many holes and hand-waving you permit in your campaign is a function
>of the Player's and Ref's ability to suspend their disbelief.  -- James]
>
Perhaps you physics types can point out the error of my ways?  The thing that's
been bugging me concerns the underlined comment above...

I seem to recall hearing (or reading) that General Relativity doesn't forbid
matter moving at FTL speeds, it only forbids matter travelling AT the speed of
light, since this would involve infinite mass.  Yes or no?

If true, then there may be the equivalent of a tunnelling diode for velocity (a
tunnelling diode, as I understand it, lets electrons 'tunnel' through a barrier
essentially they "stop" existing on one side and "start" existing on the other)
This would let your ship "stop" existing at c-x meters/sec and "start" existing
at c+x m/s.  Or is this wrong also?

- - - ------------------------------------------
The following discussion is excerpted from The Physics of Tunnelling Velocities

by Paul Baughman,  J-O-A-T

   ...

Applying energy to the Zuchai crystal web in the hull produces an oscillating,
structured energy field of the Zotorr type.  This oscillation engages the
Tunnelling Velocity Effect (TVE) which transposes the STL velocity of the
enclosed object (the ship) to the FTL velocity corresponding to one of the
prime energy states.

The Prime Energy States (PES) are superluminal energy states similar to the
electron energy states of classical Quantum Mechanics.  An object in Hyperspace
can only occupy one of these energy states.  If an amount of energy is supplied
to the Zuchai web that does not corespond exactly to one of the PES, then the
next lowest PES is entered and the excess energy is radiated to the
surroundings as gravitons.

Only six Prime Energy States are known to our present technology.  When energy
is applied corresponding to what should be the seventh, only the sixth state is
entered.  The most popular theory advanced to date is that successive energy
states do not follow the same distribution curve for energy level.  That is,
while the first six states follow a linear distribution curve, the next states
may follow a parabolic or other curve.  It must be emphasized that currently
there is no evidence either for or against this theory.  Many researchers have
attempted to find the next PES (popularly known as jump-7), but no matter how
much energy is supplied (and some truly staggering amounts have been tried)
only PES levels one through six have been identified.

As a footnote to this discussion, in 1093 Dr. Hans Zarkov of the University of
Regina, was following a promising line of research when he vanished with his
leased research ship, _Daisy_May_ .  Eyewitness accounts following the
investigation, claimed that Dr. Zarkov loaded several crates of equipment on
board his ship, then spent five days aboard before requesting clearance for a
test flight and jumping out-system.  The Daisy May and Dr. Zarkov were never
seen again.  The conclusion made by the investigating committee was that Dr.
Zarkov attempted to put his theories into action and destroyed himself and his
ship in the process.  Unfortunately, the notes Dr. Zarkov left behind were
only of the most general in nature.  As a consequence, no one really knows
whether Dr. Zarkov broke the jump-6 barrier or not.

   ...

- - -------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          [email removed]