Speculative Trade

A thread of 5 messages, 21 March 1989 to 28 March 1989, in the order they were sent.

#246 Speculative Trade

I have to agree with Adrian Hurt's comments that the old Book 2 system
for speculative cargo is superior to the newer
Merchant Prince/Megatraveller system.  On the other hand, the old system
is not perfect.  I have noticed that someone with the appropriate skills
and a little luck can make a *huge* profit in a very short time with the
Book 2 system.  I'm not sure if the problem is the modifiers for some
cargos, the price percentage table, or the lack of a limit to the DM on
the price roll.  Furthermore, as he points out, you are just as likely
to find food available on an Industrial world as machinery.

It seems to me the ideal system would have, aside from a few
adjustments, the following:
     1)     A set of tables for each trade classification,
            giving base purchase price for each item on this type of
	    world, possibly with tech level modifiers.
     2)     A master list with all possible cargos, their base resale
	    price, resale price modifiers for each trade classification,
	    and again possibly for TL.  It would also have any notes
	    regarding special considerations: special handling,
	    packing for products that don't come in standard cargo
	    containers, etc.

	    For example:
	    		---- Resale ----
	    Item	Value	Modifiers	Source Worlds
	    Grain	Cr500	Ag -30%		Ag
				Hi Pop +20%
	    Notes:
		Shipped in bulk: cargo hold must be devoted to grain,
		and have installed a special liner.  Explosive: Air in
		hold must be filtered to remove grain dust, or any
		spark or flame will cause an explosion.

I also like the idea of adding a negotiation task for MT, to replace the
skill bonus one gets on the Actual Value table in Book 2.  This would
make for a little more role-playing in the trading process, and help
minimize the effectiveness of a high Broker (or Admin, in Traveller)
skill.  (Recently, I had a group that included a Broker-5 ex-Merchant
turn Cr 700,000 in MCr 24 in about three months game time, using a 400
ton subsidized merchant.  I refuse to let this happen again.  In the
meantime, a highly valuable and underpriced cargo will come available,
tying up most of their capital.  Then the man who arranged the sale will
tell the pirates which ship it's on, and they'll be waiting.  It's low
and underhanded, but *highly* effective.)

Developing all this looks like a rather daunting and time consuming
task, and I would like to get some feedback before beginning.  If there
is enough interest, I'd also like to get some help from the net.  If we
can agree on a format, I'd be happy to collate entries for the master
list.  Then each person working on the project could prepare the
available cargo table for one trade classification.  The references
given below would provide a good starting point.  Any takers?  Any
comments?

References:
	Traveller Book 2, _Starships_
	_Megatraveller Referee's Manual_
	"Cargo: A Merchant Prince Variant", _Challenge_ #26.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Power				[email removed]
Health Information Systems
University of Alabama Hospital
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

#247 Re: Speculative Trade

In Archive-Message-Number 246, [email removed] ("MARK A. POWER")
writes the following about shipping grain:
> Explosive: Air in hold must be filtered to remove grain dust, or any spark
> or flame will cause an explosion.

Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't shipping grain in hard vacuum be almost
ideal??  Keep the pesties down, as well as reduce the explosion hazard...  I
know it was just an example -- I was mostly curious if I'm missing
something...  (e.g. popping corn probably should be kept pressurized, although
using an inert gas would still seem to be easier than filtering :-)

					Bart Massey
					..[email removed]
					..[email removed]

#252 Re: Speculative Trade

In Archive-Message-Number 247, Bart Massey ([email removed])
replied to my example cargo table entry for grain:

Me:
> Explosive: Air in hold must be filtered to remove grain dust, or any spark
> or flame will cause an explosion.

Bart:
> Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't shipping grain in hard vacuum be almost
> ideal??  Keep the pesties down, as well as reduce the explosion hazard...  I
> know it was just an example -- I was mostly curious if I'm missing
> something...  (e.g. popping corn probably should be kept pressurized, although
> using an inert gas would still seem to be easier than filtering :-)

I'd never really thought about it.  The comments were paraphrased from
an article in _Challenge_ #26.  Now that you mention it, there is
probably a better way.  I'm not sure about the effect of hard vacuum
on most grains, but popping corn probably doesn't have quite the
explosion danger of, say, wheat.  Pumping in nitrogen looks like a
good solution - it's cheap, is reasonably inert, and most beasties
can't breathe it.  Of course, the crew can't either, making
inspections of the cargo hold rather difficult since most ship designs
have only an iris valve or hatch into the cargo bay.

Thanks for the comments.  Any others?


- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Power				[email removed]
Health Information Systems
University of Alabama Hospital
- --------------------------------------------------------------------

#254 RE: Re: Speculative Trade

From:   IN%"[email removed]"  "Traveller Mailing List" 21-M
AR
   -1989 18:17
To:     [email removed]
Subj:   Re: Speculative Trade

In Archive-Message-Number 246, [email removed] ("MARK A. POWER")
writes the following about shipping grain:
> Explosive: Air in hold must be filtered to remove grain dust, or any spark
> or flame will cause an explosion.

> Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't shipping grain in hard vacuum be almost
> ideal??  Keep the pesties down, as well as reduce the explosion hazard...  I
> know it was just an example -- I was mostly curious if I'm missing
> something...  (e.g. popping corn probably should be kept pressurized, although
> using an inert gas would still seem to be easier than filtering :-)

Better to use inert gas.  My thoughts come straight from Robert Heinlein in
_The_Moon_Is_A_Harsh_Mistress_ he mentioned something about shipping grain in
pressurized containers.  Something like all the moisture sublimated out and
ruined the grain.  Now where _he_ got it, I don't know.  Nor do I know if it's
true, but better safe than sorry.  Anyone know if it's true?

Nitrogen would be ok, I think, but better to use Helium.  Not as cheap, I
agree, but even more inert and unbreathable.  Of course Helium does tend to
escape from the interstices between molecules, but I would think a 2 or 3 week
voyage wouldn't produce much of a difference.

On the other hand, maybe I'm mis-remembering the story...anyone know for sure?
I'll look it up tonight and report back.

- -------
Paul Baughman
  AKA Unka Paul
     AKA Captain Sir Michael Talmoth  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran, of a thousand psychic wars,
I've been living on the edge so long, where the winds of limbo roar,
And I'm young enough to look at, but far too old to see,
All the scars are on the inside, I don't know if there's anything left of me"
        -- BOC

#257 Speculative Trade

> Bart:
>> Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't shipping grain in hard vacuum be almost
>
>... 					 Pumping in nitrogen looks like a
>good solution - it's cheap, is reasonably inert, and most beasties
>can't breathe it.  Of course, the crew can't either, making
>inspections of the cargo hold rather difficult since most ship designs
>have only an iris valve or hatch into the cargo bay.

I'd go for vacuum, on the grounds that if the ship gets attacked, the cargo
hold will be depressurised like the rest of the ship. Unless the crew want to
risk explosive decompression, that is.

Just as a matter of interest, how is grain shipped today? I haven't seen any
articles in the news about grain ships or grain-carrying trucks exploding, so
someone must have solved this problem already.

 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  [email removed]
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   [email removed]