(no subject)

A thread of 2 messages, 26 September 1991 to 27 September 1991, in the order they were sent.

#2919 (no subject)

Subject: Revision

Well, I might as well put my Cr2 into the maelstrom...
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First off, I started playing traveller in 1979, and started running
it in 1980.  Yea, back with the old books.  I basically ran my
game through high school, then stopped (other things, no players,
etc).

Last year or so (maybe 2 years ago) I got Traveller:2300 because
I wanted to run traveller again, and was thrilled at the prospect
of an "upgrade" to a cleaner and more modern system.  You have to
face it people, traveller was designed in the D&D era, where every
game had 6 characteristics.  The basic system was simple, and
with every suppliment, book and adventure became more rich in
background.  However, the basic artifacts of the simple system
remained:

You have an area (the spinward marches) that has been settled for
about 1000 years.  Yet, tech level is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
High, low, you name it.

Anyways, I bought 2300ad when the revision came out, and it did fix
some flaws (I did, however, switch to using 2d6 for task rolls
because I liked the curve better).

At present, I am once again running traveller, having dug up all
my old books.  Yes, I bought the Referee's guide because
I wanted the vehicle design rules.  (but that is another
victim on the torture table for another time).

What I'm trying to get at here is that Traveller, MT, and any other
system BASED on it is already obsolete as far as I am concerned.
While I have not sunk as much investment into MT as others of you
out there, I have plopped down plenty for othert game systems
through the years, and will most likely continue to do so until
I find THE game that suits me and my players best.

If GDW does a revision, they should start from scratch.  No basing
it on another system.  They should start with an initial premise
about the feel of the game ("hard" SF?  Science Fantasy?
Space Opera?) and design the game around that feel.  If you
are going to pretend to have science in a game, don't be a
slave to the dice (see below).  Have more than six characteristics
if that is what it takes to define the character (I lean toward
at least 8, 4 physical and 4 mental).  Don't make social standing
and education a characteristic,make it a background.

In short, they should be innovative.  While some systems are unweildy,
they should be able to pool their resources and come up with
the SF game of the 90's and beyond.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
In a related note, for TDR people, I have tweaked my world generating
system into a blend of 2300ad, traveller and other sources.
As a result, I had to pitch the spinward marches out the window
and regenerate it.  Here is a sample world:

Zdazeplipl  (Zh)  B 12k 0.74g Thi/VLo t  57%   6b 78-B <A->  -- (3 )

Cryptic?  Mabye.  But much more real in the way it is generated than
by using a 2-12 range...

World Physical Stats: Generated first.  Size is found similar to
that in 2300ad, rated in thousands of kilometers.  Density
determined, and the gravity is found from that.

Atmosphere: I palmed Mr. Bruddick's Star system generation program
for interesting formulas, such as determining volitile inventory.
With the inventory rating, I simply check to see if the escape
velocity for gasses with a molecular weight of 44 or less is
greater than that of the world.  If so, it is a vacuum world.  If
not, the inventory, spread evenly about the surface determines
pressure.  I roll 2d6 for 8+ (modifiers for high pressure)
for tainting.  If tainted, a second 2d6 roll checks for irritant.
If irritant, a third roll checks for corrosiveness.

Hydro: Again, once volitile inventory is found, I check to see if
water vapor can escape the world.  If so, the world goes dry.
If not, surface area and a random element determines amount of
water cover based on inventory.

Oxygen: Based on the amount of water present, and assuming oxygen
molecules can't escape the planet, I determine an oxygen
content.  It is possible now to have worlds with thin atmospheres,
but require oxygen tanks.  Likewise, you can have very thin pressures
but enough oxygen pressure to breath without respirators.
In the info above, the world has a Thin atmosphere and a Very Low
Oxygen content.

Population:  The trickiest part.  Once the world's condition is
determined, I determine a population modifier based on how
desireable the world is.  T-norm worlds have the greatest modifiers,
but any world with a breathable atmosphere is better off than an
airless rock.  I then tweak this basic modifier depending on the
"age" of the subsector (mature?  Established?  Recently colonized?)
And add a random element to the modifier.  Values below 1 are
considered to be empty worlds that nobody bothered to colonize.
This population roll is checked on a table to find the population
rating (minimum of 1000, max of 100b).  This rating is cut down
if the available surface area and tech level aren't up to it.
(no, I will not shoehorn 10b people on a 1km rockball!  Likewise,
unless there is lots of room, no way is a TL-0 culture going to
number in the billions).

Starport: yes, starport is generated AFTER population.  There are
several tables, with the higher populations getting a better chance
of having a class A Starport.

Government: Actually broken into 3 seperate generation systems, for
lo, moderate and high populations.  Low population worlds roll on
a simple table (of governments I think they can have), while
moderate populations roll a single dice (okay, a d15, but thats
what computers are for).  High population governments roll a single
dice as well, but the greater they are above a certain point (1b
people) the greater the chance the type will be Balkenized.

Law: Actually calculated the same way -- Gov-7+2d6

Tech: Totally different means of determination.  Starport type
drives tech level (for example, Type A might be 16-1d4, Type B
might be 16-1d6, etc).  If generating worlds for a cohesive or linked
culture (imperium, Zhodani, etc), reduce the variance by 1 (i.e.
make a 1d3 roll instead of a 1d4 roll).  If a tight culture
(sword worlds), reduce tha variance by 2.  If on the fringes
of a large collective, increase the variance by 1.
Set a limiting TL for the culture (generally 15 for Imperium,
14 for Zhodani and Vargr, 12 for Sword worlds and other independant
worlds).  Oh yea, non-alligned worlds add 2 to the variance.

The code afterwards is my means of classifying tech levels.
Class-A worlds have star travel, class B worlds have space travel,
class C are industriallized, Class D are pre-industrial civilized,
and class F worlds are precivilized.

The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
any that fall within the roche limit.

The (3 ) is number of gas giants, followed by the number of
asteroid belts.
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Well, that's what I use.  Travel codes are figured pretty much the
same way (except that they often look at oxygen content instead
of atmo pressure)

Any comments?
     -- Burton

#2930 pending

>TML nightly     Thu Sep 26 20:31:47 PDT 1991    Volume 26 : Issue 5
>
>Date: Thu, 26 Sep 91 11:25:06 EDT
>From: [email removed] (Burton Choinski.)
>Subject: (2919)
>
>Subject: Revision

>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>In a related note, for TDR people, I have tweaked my world generating
>system into a blend of 2300ad, traveller and other sources.
>As a result, I had to pitch the spinward marches out the window
>and regenerate it.  Here is a sample world:
>
>Zdazeplipl  (Zh)  B 12k 0.74g Thi/VLo t  57%   6b 78-B <A->  -- (3 )
>
>Cryptic?  Mabye.  But much more real in the way it is generated than
>by using a 2-12 range...
>
>
>Oxygen: Based on the amount of water present, and assuming oxygen
>molecules can't escape the planet, I determine an oxygen
>content.  It is possible now to have worlds with thin atmospheres,
>but require oxygen tanks.  Likewise, you can have very thin pressures
>but enough oxygen pressure to breath without respirators.
>In the info above, the world has a Thin atmosphere and a Very Low
>Oxygen content.

Good.  Splitting up the atmosphere and its contents I like.  I was going to
suggest that you rate the atmosphere in total pressure and partial pressure of
oxygen, but on second reading, I see that you have, just in descriptive instead
of numerical terms.  Theoretically, a human can breathe fine in a pure oxy
atmosphere who's total pressure equals the partial pressure of oxy on Earth,
right? (the figure 3.5 pounds stickss in my head for this)  Leaving out
problems dealing with the low pressure, of course.

>
> ...
>
>
>The "--" notes the number of rings, number of moons.  I determine
>number of sattelites, randomly figure the orbits, and shatter
>any that fall within the roche limit.
>
Ahhh, yes.  The Roche limit.  I read many years ago, that Luna is inside
Terra's Roche Limit, yet Luna doesn't break up from tidal stresses.  Does
anyone know if that question has been settled?  Not being a planetologist type,
I sort of lost track of the question.


Paul.
- -----------
Captain Sir Michael Talmoth,  UPP:  BA5A8B

"You see me now a veteran,
     Of a thousand psychic wars,
         I've been living on the edge so long,
             Where the winds of Limbo roar.
- -- BOC