Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60)

A thread of 2 messages, 7 December 1991 to 9 December 1991, in the order they were sent.

This thread split from an earlier one: Carbon 60.

#3266 Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60)

Bertil Jonell · 7 December 1991

> From: Hans Rancke-Madsen [email removed]
> Subject: (3263) Carbon 60
>
> Furthermore the equipment they use to make it could have been built 50
> years ago. That means that we now know of a Tech 6 room-temperature
> superconductor. Neat, huh? Whatever will they think of next...

  There is a lot of inventions that theoretically could have been done much
earlier in retrospect. When something appears seems to hinge on the society
and culture.

  [Roleplaying games for example could have been done as soon as paper, pencil
and dice were invented:) ]

  This had very interesting consequenses for Traveller with its combination of
high and low tech world. For one thing it means that the TL tables are wrong;
A planet who, if they get the information that it exists, can produce jump-
drives or antigrav from TL9 might not invent either jump or antigrav until
TL 11 or higher if they had to discover it on their own.

  Sure, *some* planets might discover jump at TL 9, just as some might invent
roleplaying at TL 1 (Odysseus the RPG! Travel the Greek Islands in the Golden
Age! Smash hit everywhere in Rome!  'Nice Game' says Scipio Africanus!), and
in the contect of Traveller, those planets will pass this information on to
their neightbours and everyone else. Even the knowledge that something is
possible to do means that more than half the work is done.

  So the Traveller TL tables are only really usable within the Imperium. The
WBH achivement TL's are a step in the right direction but no enough.

>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

#3272 Re: (3266) Funny TL's (was: Carbon 60)

Robert S. Dean · 9 December 1991 · reply to #3266

Bertil writes:
>
>   There is a lot of inventions that theoretically could have been done much
> earlier in retrospect. When something appears seems to hinge on the society
> and culture.

Quite true...I _usually_ work under the assumption that Tech Level in Traveller
refers to the repair/manufacture level of the world, rather than the _use_
or _discovery_ level.

> [Roleplaying games for example could have been done as soon as paper, pencil
> and dice were invented:) ]

Aside: In 1987, I visited the British Museum in London on my honeymoon.  My
wife of four days (at the time) was a gamer, which was fortunate, because I
came to a display case in the Roman culture section containing ancient Roman
_20-sided_ dice.  I had to sit on the floor for a few minutes because I was
laughing so hard.

>  This had very interesting consequenses for Traveller with its combination of
> high and low tech world. For one thing it means that the TL tables are wrong;
> A planet who, if they get the information that it exists, can produce jump-
> drives or antigrav from TL9 might not invent either jump or antigrav until
> TL 11 or higher if they had to discover it on their own.

If you consider the tech levels to refer to the level of industrial support
needed to manufacture large quantities of the items, most of the problems
will disappaer.  At least I think so.  As you say, TL9 means that you have
the ability to _build_ jump drives gvien a blueprint--deciding whether or
not the planet has heard of them is a job for the referee.

Rob Dean