Robot Brains and Cyborgs

A thread of 4 messages, 23 April 1992 to 29 April 1992, in the order they were sent.

#3990 Robot Brains and Cyborgs

Howdy,

Richard asks about cyborgs and how do ya tell them from normal people or
robots.

Well, if I remember right, there was an old medical technology TL chart in
The old DGP Grand Census.  It may be reprinted in the World builder's handbook.
It said (from memory) that at TL 12, 'advanced prosthetics' were available.
To my mind that means either:

A) prosthetic limbs that are indestinguishable to most observation.

	or

B) advanced prosthetic organs which are capable of replacing critical internal
organs.  I'd guess that a prosthetic eye would be about TL 12.  It probably
won't look much like a normal eye, but at TL 13 a robotic eye would be
indestinguishable from a normal one.

Of course all these will be immediately detectable by a densiometer scan.

But I also remember that at TL 9 limb regeneration is possible, and at TL 12
they talk about regeneration of complex things like eyes.  So, to be frank,
I'm not sure why the question of cyborgs come up.  If you want to have a new
limb, you can grow it just as easily as have one built for you.  There will be
people who want cybernetic stuff built into them, but that would be rather
more rare than the guy who lost an arm and wants it back.

Now, the cyborgs would then be cyborgs by CHOICE.  And depending on how
obvious the individual wants it to be, above TL 12 you'll need a densiometer
to pick them out.  Even at TL 12, if the addition is small and carefully kept
to be the same density as surrounding tissue, an implant might be VERY hard
to detect.  X-Ray?  Build it out of plastic.

To quote an ancient chinese saying "Where there are electronic counter
measures, there are electronic counter counter measures."  If you want your
implant hidden, you can make it hidden.  Then it would take a more advanced
sensor scan to pick it up.  Such scans probably exist, but they are not
normally in use.

It's like trying to hide a body pistol.  The higher the TL pistol, the higher
the TL sensors it's designed to fool. :-)

As to the question:  Can a cyborg pass for a robot?  Well, if he was designed
to do so, sure.  But who would wanna be designed that way?  To fool a
densiometer scan your insides would have to look like the insides of a robot.
That means massive replacement of your organs with cybergear.  Also, I'd bet
your brain and it's massive support equipment will show up on a densiometer
scan.  I'm not really sure how to address the question I'm afraid.  Under what
circumstances would a cyborg wanna pass for a robot?
	------------------------------
Back to Pseudo-Bios.
I know zip about software programming.  Pascal and Basic are my limits.  I
can't address the difficulties of Programming these babies.  I'd get jumped
real quick by the real computer jocks out there.  But, I'd bet that at
differing tech levels, software engineers could handle the task with equal
ability, the main trouble is getting the hardware in shape to where a good
enough program can be run.

Quick look at brain design:
The education of a robot is effectively limited to how many storage units can
be stuffed in the robot.  Thus we can assume that given unlimited cash we can
build it to any education level we want.

Brain intelligence is limited though.  At TL 8 the max intelligence is
negative 3.  But at TL 9 we get parallel CPU components and the max
intelligence is then limited to Tech level minus 3.  Thus:
TL	Intelligence
9	6
10	7  etc. etc.

At TL 12 you can run Low Autonomous Programming and the cost of an intelligent
brain goes down.

So, I think that even a TL 9 brain is up to the task of fooling a person into
thinking it is an organic being under LIMITED circumstances.  (Hmm, how many
TMLers out there have actually met in the flesh... hmmmmmm? |->

So the problem is not so much the brain hardware, nor the software really.
But getting both to the point where the robot can act organic under more and
more circumstances.  Trying to fill in the gaps in the robot's conversation
that would not be there in a human.  Most humans have some sort of opinion on
every topic you can imagine (look at me and my big mouth!).  But if a robot
is mainly programmed for something like flying what happens when the question
of music comes up?  Then of course you could program it to be reticent on such
topics, but that's a cop out.  It is also a tactic that could be explioted.
(Blade Runner:  "Tell me about your mother...")

What do the software jocks say?  James?  Mark?  Richard?

Scott Kellogg
"Dreams are stranger than reality..."  - Me at 3 am the other night.

#3994 Re: Robot Brains and Cyborgs

[email removed] writes:
> what happens when the question of music comes up? Then of course you
> could program it to be reticent on such topics, but that's a cop out.
> It is also a tactic that could be explioted. (Blade Runner: "Tell me
> about your mother...")

> What do the software jocks say?  James?  Mark?  Richard?

Talk is cheap, here's my two cents worth.

When it comes to "true" AI, existing programming models are insufficient
to the task. The challenge to explicit programming becomes far too
great, requiring the AIT to auto-program itself a result of life
experiences. AIs are likely to have a very different set of initial
experiences than humans, and would take a large amount of interaction to
recognize and categorize human interaction and mimic it. Of course, once
such a pattern is established in one piece of hardware, the
implementation can be cloned, with fairly convincing results.

James

#4013 Re: Robot Brains and Cyborgs

<Scott Kellogg says>
: what happens when the question of music comes up? Then of course you
: could program it to be reticent on such topics, but that's a cop out.
: It is also a tactic that could be explioted. (Blade Runner: "Tell me
: about your mother...")
:
: What do the software jocks say?  James?  Mark?  Richard?

ME!?  A software jock!?  Scott you've been sampling the biochem'
department's throwaways!  . . . but as James says...
:Talk is cheap, here's my two cents worth.
I'll be happy to philosophise for you.

I'll only mildly disagree with James.  I suspect that it is _almost_
within the skill of TL8 programming to create an AI that is concerto
qualified.  Of course it would do nothing else.  I assert it's more a
matter of hardware than software at this point.  We can do anything,
given enough code.  :=)

Actually, my view of machine intelligence is that when it arrives,
it will in no way mimic human intelligence.  Well, maybe superficially.
After all, the robot - Si creature that it is, rugged, semi-immortal,
with different sensor apparatus, has about as much in common with us
as does the fruit fly.

- --
Richard Johnson      [email removed]
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

#4019 Re: Robot Brains and Cyborgs

I've got several blocks of included text, so please bear with me.

Scott Kellogg asks...

> what happens when the question of music comes up? Then of course you
> could program it to be reticent on such topics, but that's a cop out.
> It is also a tactic that could be explioted. (Blade Runner: "Tell me
> about your mother...")
>
> What do the software jocks say?  James?  Mark?  Richard?

'Software jock'.  Hmmm.  I *like* that.  I wonder what HP would
think if I had it added to my new business cards. :^)

In response, James writes...

> When it comes to "true" AI, existing programming models are insufficient
> to the task. The challenge to explicit programming becomes far too
> great, requiring the AIT to auto-program itself a result of life
> experiences. AIs are likely to have a very different set of initial
> experiences than humans, and would take a large amount of interaction to
> recognize and categorize human interaction and mimic it. Of course, once
> such a pattern is established in one piece of hardware, the
> implementation can be cloned, with fairly convincing results.

.... and Richard writes...

> I'll only mildly disagree with James.  I suspect that it is _almost_
> within the skill of TL8 programming to create an AI that is concerto
> qualified.  Of course it would do nothing else.  I assert it's more a
> matter of hardware than software at this point.  We can do anything,
> given enough code.  :=)

I think James and Richard are both partly right. :^)

For those of you who haven't been watching it, there's a *WONDERFUL*
5-part series, sponsored in part by the ACM (that's the Association
of Computing Machinery, for those of you with non-software backgrounds),
being shown on PBS TV called "The Machine that Changed the World".  As
you may have guessed by the title, the subject is digital computers.  It
just so happens that this weeks episode (entitled "The Thinking Machine")
was about the attempts (and failures) to develop a true machine intelligence.
Specifically, one that could pass the Turing Test.  (If you don't know
what that is, drop me a line and I'll explain it.)

According to current experts in the field, hardware *is* the limiting
factor.  As early as the late-50s, there were experiments (mostly conducted
by the U.S. Army) attempting to create artificial intelligence.  Later,
in the 60s, there were numerous attempts in the private sector.

They all failed.  By 1980, with one exception, they were all terminated.
The only experiment still currently underway is the 'Cyke' (for
'Encyclopedia') Project in Texas.  They've been constructing their
database for over ten years and they maintain that they've still got
a long ways to go.

The problem is that for years, experts insisted that you didn't have to
model the brain (hardware).  All you had to do was successfully model
the 'mind' (software).  The trouble is, they haven't been able to figure
out exactly how a human brain programs itself as a person grows up.

The cloest anyone has come to success falls into two catagories: expert
systems and neural networks.

Expert systems can be developed on conventional computer hardware, and
are remarkably successful, but they're confined to a single, narrowly
defined area of expertise.  Outside that area, they're useless.  To be
a true AI is to be able to cope with *any* subject intelligently (but
not necessarily expertly).  Even the ability to gracefully admit ignorance,
in what appears to be a sentient fashion, is currently beyond the scope
of even the most ambitious AI yet constructed.

Neural networks, on the other hand, are not so much programmed, as they
are 'taught', using methods very similar to teaching a person.  There
are three main problems with them.  Number one, they can't be built
complex enough yet to come even close to storing the number of experiences
that a human brain can hold.  Number two, even the researchers that build
them aren't exactly sure how they 'learn' the lessons they are taught.
And that leads directly to problem number three.  Since it isn't clear
how a neural network 'learns', it hard to tell exactly *WHAT* it's
learning.  It may not be what you think.  Here's a real example.

In the early 1960s, the U.S. Army decided to build an AI (primitive
neural network) which could do high speed tactical recon photo analysis.
The goal was to have the AI rapidly identify enemy tanks in aerial
photos.  To do this, the Army took over 2,000 aerial photos, all of
outdoor scenes (forested, open fields, and combinations thereof).
Half of the photos contained one or more tanks (some in plain sight,
and some partially concealed by foliage).  The other half did not
contain any type of vehicle.  About 90% of these photos were used to
'teach' the AI the difference between the two types of photos.  When
the instruction was finished, the remaining photos were presented for
analysis.  The AI scored 100% on the test photos.

Then, just to make sure that the AI was programmed correctly, the Army
went out and took more photos of both types (with and without tanks),
and presented them to the AI for interpretation.  It failed almost
totally.

It turned out that in the original set of photos, all the pictures
containing tanks were taken on one day (a sunny day) and the 'empty'
pictures were taken on another day (an overcast day).  All the AI
ended up learning was how to tell between nice weather and not-so-nice
weather.

End of experiment.

It would appear, based on the last 35+ years of research, that a true AI
cannot be programmed.  It must learn, the same way that humans (or animals,
for that matter) learn.  Even the basis data, from which learning begins,
must consist of some fairly non-intuitive information.  This is what the
'Cyke' project is all about.

They discovered very early in their experiment, that the single biggest
hurdle for a budding AI to overcome is that of understanding the context
of human communication.  Here are two examples.

        "Jane looked through the glass window of shop at the red bicycle.
         She very badly wanted it."

        "Jane looked at the red bicycle through the glass window.  She
         pressed her nose up against it as she stared."

To humans, it is very apparent that 'it' in the first sentence refers
to the bicycle, but 'it' in the second sentence refers to the glass
window.  An AI would be unable to make the distinction because of it's
lack of understanding of human context.  Humans develop this ability
automatically in early childhood.  A compute must be taught explicitly.

To this end, Project 'Cyke' is attempting to teach a computer human
context by brute-force.  They are programming an entire encyclopedia
into the database of their AI, but they're not just including what
one would find in a normal encyclopedia.  They must also include those
bits of information that, to a human, would seem so ridiculously obvious
that no one would ever think it necessary to codify them.  For example,
under the encyclopedia entry for "Abraham Lincoln", they are including
data points like:

        * When Lincoln became president of the United States and was
          in Washington D.C., his left foot was also in Washington D.C.

        * Lincoln's name and date of birth stayed the same during his
          entire life.

        * Lincoln's children were always younger then Lincoln.

        * When Lincoln died, he remained dead, although some of his ideas
          and knowledge of him continued to exist.

Sounds pretty obvious, huh?  Well, not to a computer.  The researchers
on the 'Cyke' Project are still many years away from testing their 'baby',
but they run it every night to have it look for inconsistancies in it's
database, to establish correlations on it's own.  Some of the results
have been... strange.  For example:

    SetOfPersons = Preeminent

Cyke says all people are preeminent.  This an artifact of the fact that,
so far, all of the individuals programmed into the database (with the
exception of the project researchers themselves) have been famous people.
Therefore *ALL* people are famous.  Or how about:

    SetOfNationsSameGovernmentSameReligion = SetOfNationsSameOrganizations

Cyke says all nations with the same general government type and same primary
religion are also members of the same organizations.  (I.e. all moslem
monarchies are members of OPEC.)  My example here is almost certainly wrong,
but Cyke's correlation may be correct.  The researchers are attempting to
validate or invalidate the premise.

And the work continues.

Richard also writes...

> Actually, my view of machine intelligence is that when it arrives,
> it will in no way mimic human intelligence.  Well, maybe superficially.
> After all, the robot - Si creature that it is, rugged, semi-immortal,
> with different sensor apparatus, has about as much in common with us
> as does the fruit fly.

Sad, but probably true.  Thank God for PGMPs, huh? :^)

So Scott asks...

> Sounds cool, but what would *that* be like?  What would it think like?

Beats me (and everybody else too, I suspect).  Ask us what the color 'blue'
tastes like.  That's an easier question to answer. :^)

I've got a more specific question: would 'garbage collection' routines
for an AI (should they need to exist) be analogous to human dreaming?

Actually, I'm saving my *GOOD* answers to your question for Colin Roald's
summer PBEM (I hope).

Later,
                        "Nothing becomes real till it is experienced -
                         even a proverb is no proverb to you till your
                         life has illustrated it."
                                        - John Keats

                        "I can only assume that a 'Do Not File' document
                         is filed in a 'Do Not File' file."
                                        - Senator Frank Church,
                                          Senate Intelligence Subcommittee
                                          Hearing, 1975
        - Mark C.