Life & Resources

A thread of 3 messages, 16 February 1993 to 19 February 1993, in the order they were sent.

#5205 Life & Resources

All of this will probably incite lots of flames, but oh well. Remember,
I was only a humanities major (sigh :-)

Re: Life Stat

Two nights ago, Wildstar proposed adding a life stat to the UWP in order
to account for the extent of a planet's ecosystem (presumably to be
modified by colonization whether destructive or beneficial). However,
he suggested rolling under the stat on 2d6 to determine whether or not
native sentience has evolved. Mark Watson argued that this is probably
too liberal, and being conservative on this issue (my reasoning can be
read in yesterday's TML), I'm offering the following table for criticisms.

0: Sterile
1: Amino Acids
2: Single-celled organisms
3: Multi-cellular bacteria
4: Simple vegetation
5: Complex vegetation
6: Microscopic insects & sea life
7: Macroscopic insects
8: Macroscopic sea life
9: Land/Air-based herbivores
A: Land/Air-based predators
B: Large/Complex predators
C: Tool use
D: Fire use
E: Agriculture
F: Symbology (full sentience, TL=0)

As you can see, my peculiar prejudice for cracking down hard on the
"minor" races has led me to confine even the most advanced of them
to TL=0. For my own campaign, this is perfect, but I imagine that for
most others, it won't do (just another example of how setting drives
planetary generation and vice-versa). For the more liberal-minded,
you may want to give C+ various higher degrees of technology than
what has been listed.

Re: Resources Stat

Wildstar also proposed a "resources" stat. Here is another table for
your consideration.

0: Barren
1-4: Poor
5-8: Moderate
9-C: Rich
D+ : Extreme

Poor: Basic chemical diversity necessary to support indigenous life.
   Otherwise, no claim to fame.
Moderate: One solid natural-resource industry. Roll on table 10a of
   the MT Ref's Manual. Re-roll 34-54 if life < 4 (see above). Re-roll
   65 if life < 5. Re-roll 55-56 if life < 8. Re-roll 61-64 if life < 9.
   Re-roll 66 if life < A.
Rich: Two natural-resources industries, one of which commands strong
   subsector-wide influence.
Extreme: Three natural-resource industries, one of which commands
   sector-wide influence.

Note: The GM should translate natural-resource industries into their
   manufacturing/processing (2nd stage) industries as seems appropriate.
   See MT Ref's Manual (pg52) for possibilities.

Another note: Under this system, the resource stat is rolled before
the life stat, and the life stat is rolled before the specific
industries are determined.

I admit, this is all very cut & dry, but it's easier to complicate
a simple system than to simplify a complex one.

           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       [email removed]
             ( )        [email removed]
              U         [email removed]
           Aachk!       [phone removed]

#5209 Life and Resource Scores

First off, I'd like to thank Jeff Zeitlin for some interesting
suggestions for Government and Law Level TL mods; these bear trying out.

[email removed] (james vassilakos) writes:
> Two nights ago, Wildstar proposed adding a life stat to the UWP in order
> to account for the extent of a planet's ecosystem (presumably to be
> modified by colonization whether destructive or beneficial). However,
> he suggested rolling under the stat on 2d6 to determine whether or not
> native sentience has evolved. Mark Watson argued that this is probably
> too liberal, and being conservative on this issue (my reasoning can be
> read in yesterday's TML), I'm offering the following table for criticisms.

Since all of the other UWP stats reflect the condition of the world as
it is now, and changes are inferred; I'd assume that the changes due to
colonization have already been applied (just like the effects of any
terraforming have already been applied).  Given this, and given that
upon reflection even I think that rolling 2d6 for Life or less is
probably too liberal, try the following:

Life Score
0 = Sterile (although "organic" compounds may be present).
1 = Pre-Life (sophisticated "organic" compounds, precursors to life).
2+  Some Life Present (at least single-"cell" simple organisms).
    As the Life score increases, the number and size of the ecosystems
    increase, as does the number and complexity of the organisms which
    can be found there.  Remember that this applies equally to
    native life-forms as well as "imported" forms (due to activity of
    the Ancients, colonization, or simply by accident).  The minimums
    for native development of a given complexity can be figured out from
    the table below.

Whether or not you apply DMs to the Life score based on the stellar zone
the planet is in (inner, habitable, or outer) depends on your views on
really outrageous biochemistries.  If you believe that sentient life can
evolve in ecospheres in gas giants or on ultra-cold (or ultra-hot)
worlds, the zone DMs should be no more than -2 or -4.  In this case, I'd
suggest using a -3 for Inner and Outer Zone worlds, and a DM of 0 for
worlds in the habitable zone.  This is probably compatible with the
Classic Traveller vision of the universe (which is heavily indebted to
Larry Niven and Edward E ("Doc") Smith) with intelligent gas-giant
dwellers and all sorts of exotic life-forms, and sentient life-forms are
all over the place, although many of them (from the Jgd to the Cymbiots
aren't really "life as we know it").

While the above pretty accurately describes the way I feel, I certainly
understand if this isn't everybody's cup of tea.  For a lot less life in
general, and a lot less intelligent life, try the following DMs:
- -1 if not a Main Sequence (size V) star
- -1 if not a Spectral Class F or G star
- -6 if in Inner Zone
- -4 if in Outer Zone
This should cause the most Life to cluster around the habitable zone of
class F and G Main Sequence stars (in other words, stars like the Sun or
a little brighter).  Thus most life will be "life as we know it", and
will be much less prevalent than in the first method.

Now throw 2d6 and subtract the results from the Life Score:
0-  No significant native organisms (all "boring" or imported).
1 = "Interesting" native single-cell organisms.
2 = "Interesting" native microscopic (multi-cell) organisms.
3 = "Interesting" native plants (macroscopic).
4 = "Interesting" native animals (non-sentient).
5 = Complex native ecosystem (multiple "Interesting" organisms).
6+  Native Sentient or near-Sentient life (always interesting).

The second throw should probably be part of the "world building"
procedure, and not part of the basic generation.  Once the throw is
made, the referee will then have to decide (as part of the detailed
world description) what the "interesting" things about the planet are.

From the above procedure, you can see that it is possible to generate a
world with a lush and complete biosphere, all of which is the result of
a large colonisation effort.  This also makes the minimum Life score for
a world to have native sophonts to be 8.  This system causes one or two
worlds to have native sentient (or "near-sentient", an out for referees
who don't want this many minor races around) per subsector.  Assuming
the Life DMs balance out (and they may not, I didn't check) random
generation will have about 5.4% for all worlds (or a little less than one
in 18) with native sentient or near-sentient life.

> [table omitted in the interest of brevity]

I really wouldn't want to lock down that exactly what each level on the
scale means.  Comparing two ecosystems on Earth is rough enough;
extending this to encompass, for example, silicon based
methane-breathers will stretch it too far.  Not every world is going to
have a carbon and water based metabolism that arose from the oceans.

I really don't agree with this, particularly from C (Tool Use) on up;
these distinctions should really be made as part of the details for the
native sentient or semi-sentient race.  The exact stage of development
should probably be determined by the referee during the "world building"
stage of generating planetary details.  I should also point out that
while the use of tools and fire is pretty much a clincher for sentient
or semi-sentient creatures, by the time they are practicing agriculture
the society is pretty much at TL-0.

Using the tables above as a guide, the followings are minimums for
native life forms:

0 = Sterile
1 = Pre-Life
2 = Life (maybe even pre-cellular life)
3 = Single-Celled organisms
4 = Multi-cellular organisms
5 = "Plant" life
6 = Animal life
7 = Complex ecosystems
8 = MINIMUM for native sentient organisms.

But please note that it is possible for a world to have a Life score of
12, but not have any "interesting" native life.  One possibility is a
world that has been colonized, and the colonist's imported plants and
animals have out-competed the native ecosystem, which as become nearly
extinct.  This is a definite possibility, particularly on worlds that
have been civilized for thousands of years.  Another possibility is a
world that is covered with oceans, which are literally filled with an
amazing diversity of single-celled organisms.  Literally every square
centimeter of the worlds' surface has something living on it.  Although
such a world might have a relatively high Life rating, it may only rate
as having "interesting" single-celled organisms.

> For the more liberal-minded,
> you may want to give C+ various higher degrees of technology than
> what has been listed.

I would think that it is better to have the Life score as independent of
the natives' TL as possible.  The Life score can be used to determine
whether or not there *are* natives, but their TL is more properly the
province of the worlds' TL score.  If the world has both a native
population and human colonists, the UWP TL score will indicate the
population that interstellar travellers will interact with the most.
When "building" such a world, the native race and its technology can be
detailed.

> Re: Resources Stat

Here are some suggestions for the Resources score, too.

Roll 2d6 and subtract this total from the resources stat:
0-  Nothing worth commercial exploitation (at this time).
1-3 Better sources exist elsewhere; local commercial exploitation only
4-7 Major Source; important subsector-wide producer
8+  Principal Source; important sector-wide producer
The referee will then have to decide what commodity (or commodities) the
world's resources represent.  While this is relatively quick and dirty,
there are some potential problems.  These problems are the same as the
ones inherent in the scheme proposed by Jim: it is quite possible to
roll up two worlds, both major producers or better, and both with the
same resource, all in the same subsector.

Either Jim's method, or the method above (I don't think it's very
important either way; the two are nearly equivalent) are probably
suitable for most referees.  On re-consideration, Jim's system is
simpler, and therefore probably the better of the two.

A better method would be to select a resource type (perhaps using Table
10a, or from some other source), and roll 1d6.  This is the "amount" of
this resource, but not more than the resource score of the world.
Continue until the entire resource score is accounted for.  An example
is in order:

2d6 Roll 10 for the Resource score of the world.
1st Resource: #61, Livestock.  Amount: 5
2nd Resource: #42, Plants (wood).  Amount: 4
3rd Resource: #63, Livestock.  Amount: 1 (a 3 was rolled).

So, our hypothetical world produces Livestock at Level 6 (the two
livestock resources add, at the referees' discretion), and Plants (wood)
at Level 4.

Comparing all of the scores and types within the subsector and within
the sector will reveal the primary producers of each type.

> I admit, this is all very cut & dry, but it's easier to complicate
> a simple system than to simplify a complex one.

Agreed.  While I don't like your Life system, the resource system you
present is very simple and has the desired effect.  One suggestion,
though: prehaps we should come up with a resource type table which is
more appropriate than good 'ol Table 10a/b.  A better variety of
resources, and with the table organised so that we can use a DM based on
Life, Size and/or other planetary stats would be good.

One possibility would be to use a 1d6+1d6 table (like tables 10a) and
apply DMs to the first die based on the Life Score (Life 0=-2, 1-3=-1,
4-6=0, 7-9=+1, 10+=+2) and the second die based on the world size (Size
Asteroid/VerySmall/Small=-1, Large=+1).  What do y'all think?


[email removed]
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future

#5216 Miscellaneous World Generation Stuff

Re: Rich Worlds

[email removed] (Derek Wildstar) writes:
>No, a Rich world is one that is prosperous because it has reasonable
>living conditions, is not over- or under- populated, and has a
>government which is conducive to personal prosperity.  If a corporation
>should take over a Rich world, it will cease being Rich, because the
>corporate government would change the way the worlds' inhabitants live
>and work.

Hmm... I dunno. Rich, to me, means rich. Maybe there's a different
adjective for these so-called freedom/middle-pop/relatively nice-
atmosphere type worlds. To strengthen my previous claim, consider
this. Rich worlds under the current system are designated so by
virture of atmosphere, population, and government, while poor
worlds, their supposed antithesis, are designated so by only
atmosphere and hydrosphere (both physical characteristics) and
without any regard to population or government. So the way I see
it (and this is an extreme viewpoint) is that we should use the
"resource" stat you proposed for these "rich" and "poor"
classifications and totally do away with the other criteria.
(Now donning flame-proof battledress :-)


Re: The "Life" Stat

>Whether or not you apply DMs to the Life score based on the stellar zone
>the planet is in (inner, habitable, or outer) depends on your views on
>really outrageous biochemistries.

Yeah. You know my feelings on this: that a human-dominated setting
conflicts with the teaming-universe hypothesis (i.e. if you have one,
you can't realistically have the other). If you have any rebuttals
to this argument, however, feel free to share them. It's something
I wouldn't mind finding a way around.

> -1 if not a Main Sequence (size V) star
> -1 if not a Spectral Class F or G star

I dunno. I think we should just stick with inner & outer zone
modifiers, and I'd be inclined to make those modifiers steep,
even prohibative. The stellar modifiers for those annoying
M-V's & M-VI's can be taken care of by the fact that there is
no habitable zone in such systems (due to the previously
mentioned tidal stress and consequential Roche limit).

>Now throw 2d6 and subtract the results from the Life Score:
>0-  No significant native organisms (all "boring" or imported).
>1 = "Interesting" native single-cell organisms.
>2 = "Interesting" native microscopic (multi-cell) organisms.
>3 = "Interesting" native plants (macroscopic).
>4 = "Interesting" native animals (non-sentient).
>5 = Complex native ecosystem (multiple "Interesting" organisms).
>6+  Native Sentient or near-Sentient life (always interesting).

So you want this table to be used in "world building", not in
mainworld (UWP) generation. I still think we should have something
for the UWP stat which is detailed. I admit, mine is probably
overly terran-centric, but at least it has some guts to it
(i.e. you can look at the stat and tell what's there in a
fair amount of detail... for example, there's nothing more
evolved than microscopic plant-life). We need something like
this right in the UWP. If you don't like what's in the table
I proposed, then propose another. Better that than to leave it
completely amorphous.

>I really wouldn't want to lock down that exactly what each level on the
>scale means.  Comparing two ecosystems on Earth is rough enough;
>extending this to encompass, for example, silicon based
>methane-breathers will stretch it too far.  Not every world is going to
>have a carbon and water based metabolism that arose from the oceans.

True, but I still think that the life-stat itself should tell the
GM something about the world. To say, "Oh, I'm not sure what that
means, I didn't go through world-building for this planet" is
kinda silly.

I agree that I'm locking the table into a terran-centric view of
evolution (which is stupid). But since I'm not a science major, I'm
not really fluent enough in alternate-evolutions to come up with
anything more generalized. If somebody has some ideas for generalizing
the table I proposed while still leaving the GM with a good feel for
what's there based on the stat, please step forward.

>0 = Sterile
>1 = Pre-Life
>2 = Life (maybe even pre-cellular life)
>3 = Single-Celled organisms
>4 = Multi-cellular organisms
>5 = "Plant" life
>6 = Animal life
>7 = Complex ecosystems
>8 = MINIMUM for native sentient organisms.

Okay. This is a good start (assuming we overlook the notion that
"kingdoms" other than protista, plant, and animal could evolve).
What I guess I'm looking for is further generalization with more
detail (for values above 8). I admit, it's a tall order.

>I would think that it is better to have the Life score as independent of
>the natives' TL as possible.  The Life score can be used to determine
>whether or not there *are* natives, but their TL is more properly the
>province of the worlds' TL score.

I totally agree with you on this. The thing is, while the table was
named a "life" table, it was really a "life/sentience" table. That is,
we tied the evolutionary development of sentience to the evolutionary
development of life. They went hand in hand. If you want to nuke this
hypothesis, just say so, but if not, there there has to be a linkage
either on the table for the UWP score we're inventing or in the
world-building process (I'd prefer the latter, and from what I've
read, you'd probably agree).

>If the world has both a native
>population and human colonists, the UWP TL score will indicate the
>population that interstellar travellers will interact with the most.
>When "building" such a world, the native race and its technology can be
>detailed.

Sounds good, but we still need a good table for establishing how much
the natives have evolved. That should be the life stat in the UWP.
Then we can bring up sentience in the world-building stage and let
each gamer go his or her separate way depending on how much non-human
sentience we want to deal with in our various campaigns.


Re: The "Resource" Stat

Wildstar proposes two methods for rolling & interpreting this
stat. In his conclusion, he seems to prefer his second proposal.

>2d6 Roll 10 for the Resource score of the world.
>1st Resource: #61, Livestock.  Amount: 5
>2nd Resource: #42, Plants (wood).  Amount: 4
>3rd Resource: #63, Livestock.  Amount: 1 (a 3 was rolled).

We still have to be careful with our resource types. That is, if
the planet turns out to have no native life, or very little, and
further seems incapable of supporting any (i.e. vacuum, non-habitable
zone, etc) then having trees and livestock is probably going
to look funky.

>Comparing all of the scores and types within the subsector and within
>the sector will reveal the primary producers of each type.

Yeah, all in all, I like it. I actually like it quite a bit
better than the system I proposed for this same thing last night.
We just need to be a little bit careful with the resource types.

>prehaps we should come up with a resource type table which is
>more appropriate than good 'ol Table 10a/b.  A better variety of
>resources, and with the table organised so that we can use a DM based on
>Life, Size and/or other planetary stats would be good.

I'll try to get something worked up for tomorrow night's TML.
You can do the same, and then we can duke it out :-)

>One possibility would be to use a 1d6+1d6 table (like tables 10a) and
>apply DMs to the first die based on the Life Score (Life 0=-2, 1-3=-1,
>4-6=0, 7-9=+1, 10+=+2) and the second die based on the world size (Size
>Asteroid/VerySmall/Small=-1, Large=+1).  What do y'all think?

Let's not forget atmosphere. Hmm... this is starting to entail lots
of variables.


Re: Sector Viewing

Well, as you know, once we flesh out these two stats we're
talking about, we'll need a sector viewer that can read 'em.
What I have here is a new sector viewer (for the IBM-PC)
which is compatible with the sunbane (standard) data. I'll
modify the program as we come to a consensus (if we come to
a consensus) to incorporate the "life" and "resource" stats.

Here's the specifics:

        PROGRAM NAME: "galactic" [v1.0] {February 1993}
        GAME SYSTEM: Traveller/MegaTraveller
        AUTHOR: Jim Vassilakos  ([email removed])
        FUNCTION: Sector Viewer
        OPERATING SYSTEM: IBM (MS-DOS)
        PRICE: Public Domain
        COMMENTS: CGA or better required. Allows the user to
              skip from world to world, reading planetary
              descriptions and notes about each world in any
              given star sector. Is compatible with the sunbane
              sector data. Zip file includes Spinward Marches
              data as well as notes on the Yres system. QB45
              source included with the compiled executable.
              Contact the author for a uuencoded version via
              email.
        FILE(s): galactic.zip
        SOURCE(s): Available via Anonymous FTP:
          ftp.cs.pdx.edu (131.252.20.145) in pub/frp/src

Note that it does take a little work getting a sunbane sector ready
to view, but the spinward marches are all there ready to go. All the
user has to do is provide the long-winded world descriptions from
her or his campaign. Let me know what you think.


           _   /|       Jim Vassilakos
           \`o_O'       [email removed]
             ( )        [email removed]
              U         [email removed]
           Aachk!       [phone removed]