Comments and Tables and Stuff...

A thread of 2 messages, 2 June 1993 to 3 June 1993, in the order they were sent.

#5538 Comments and Tables and Stuff...

Wildstar:
>Steve Higginbotham writes:
>>         2)  Design requirements and (possible) mistakes:  All of the
>> canned ships have quite a lot of maneuver fuel.  All well and good
>> for PCs to rip around in, but aren't the merchant ships designed to
>> make money???

>As a work-around, perhaps we can assume that the provided ship designs
>are as modified for exploratory trading in the wilds?  At least until
>we get teh Technical Architecture manual (or wherever GDW decides to
>put the starship design rules).

Well, actually, I would consider any ship that pulled only 1G and was
unarmed to be totally useless for exploratory trading in the Wilds.  So,
no, *I* couldn't assume that.  The rest of you will decide these things
for yourself, without any inputs from me, of course...


>> Either way, it is easier to use a J-1 boat to do the job that an SDB
>> used to do (after all, the J-1 requires MUCH less fuel than the
>> normal space crossing, and takes less time if you are going as far as
>> Jupiter...)

>Definitely.  It might even be a good idea to put a Jump-0 drive into
>the Technical Architecture book.  A jump drive optimized for in-system
>travel; probably with a maximum range of under a half a light year per
>jump.  Such a drive, particularly if it were cheaper and/or consumed
>less fuel, would be particularly nice.  Say, about half size and cost
>of a J-1 drive, and about half fuel consumption.  Max jump about a half
>a light-year.

This is what we have been using in our own campaign for many years.  J-0
uses 5% of ship's displacement fuel to go up to 10,000AU.


>>   1)  The "100 Diameters Travel Times" Table on page 225 is incorrect
>> in almost every entry.
>>   2)  The Interplanetary Distance Matrix has many entries, of which
>> no more than 1/3 are correct.
>>   3)  The "Interplanetary Speed" Table has nine entries.  NONE are
>> correct

>Can you provide corrected tables?

Yes...

Oh, you mean NOW?!?  Sure:

NOTE/WARNING:  Lots of boring tables.  Those not interested (which
should be almost all of you) should page-down to the dashed line.

100 Diameters Travel Times:

Time in hours unless otherwise mentioned.  Accurate to 1/10 hour.  Note
that the basic assumption that G-hours can be used as a velocity in
these calculations is adhered to, though many of the numbers in the
size-0 column are small enough that the assumption is not really valid.

== : time required to expend the specified G-hours.
time/== : (specified time OR time required to expend specified G-hours,
whichever is GREATER) OR 25 min, whichever is LESS.  Basically a really
short time.

World size:
               0         1         2         3         4         5
G-hours
     0.1     50m*      12.7      25.3      38.0      50.7      63.4
     0.2     25m        6.3      12.7      19.0      25.3      31.7
     0.3     17m/==     4.2       8.4      12.7      16.9      21.1
     0.4     13m/==     3.2       6.3       9.5      12.7      15.8
     0.5     10m/==     2.5       5.1       7.6      10.1      12.7
     0.6      9m/==     2.1       4.2       6.3       8.4      10.6
     0.7      ==        1.8       3.6       5.4       7.2       9.1
     0.8      ==        1.6       3.2       4.8       6.3       7.9
     0.9      ==        1.4       2.8       4.2       5.6       7.0

* : This is ASSUMED to be correct, just because I have no reason to
believe that there IS a correct answer to that particular question.
Other values for the size-0 case are based upon this.

World Size:
               6         7         8         9         A         SG**
G-hours
     0.1     76.0      88.7     101.4     114.0     126.7      385.8
     0.2     38.0      44.3      50.7      57.0      63.4      192.9
     0.3     25.3      29.6      33.8      38.0      42.2      128.6
     0.4     19.0      22.2      25.3      28.5      31.7       96.5
     0.5     15.2      17.7      20.3      22.8      25.3       77.2
     0.6     12.7      14.8      16.9      19.0      21.1       64.3
     0.7     10.9      12.7      14.5      16.3      18.1       55.1
     0.8      9.5      11.1      12.7      14.3      15.8       48.2
     0.9      8.4       9.9      11.3      12.7      14.1       42.9

** :  It is assumed that Neptune is the size of the generic Small Gas
Giant.  Neptune has a diameter of ~49,000Km


World size:
               LG
G-Hours
     0.1    1086.5
     0.2     543.3
     0.3     362.2
     0.4     271.6
     0.5     217.3
     0.6     181.1
     0.7     155.2
     0.8     135.8
     0.9     120.7

*** :  It is assumed that Jupiter is the size of the generic Large Gas
Giant.  Jupiter has a diameter of ~138,000Km

Interplanetary Speed:

          Time (min)
G-Hours
     1       142
     2        71
     3        47
     4        35
     5        28
     6        24
     7        20
     8        18
     9        16

Note that these values are about 25% lower than those on the original
table.  Which means transits are 25% FASTER.

Interplanetary Distance Matrix:

NOTE/WARNING:  This is the big one, anyone silly enough to have hung on
through to here is advised to skip this one.

Note:  Any distance over ~120,000 light seconds will take the fastest
listed ship over one year to cross, so the parts of this table dealing
with the orbits 13+ are especially meaningless.

Note also that any ship can jump to any orbit 7+ faster than it can
cross the distance in normal space.

Note also that the entries that were correct in the initial tables are
marked with an '*' (all 22 of them)

Outer orbit number
                         1         2         3         4         5
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)       100*      250*      400*      700*     1300*
      1     (20)                 150*      300*      600*     1200*
      2     (35)                           150       450*     1050*
      3     (50)                                     300*      900*
      4     (80)                                               600*

                         6         7         8         9         10
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)      2500      4900*     9700     19300      38500
      1     (20)      2400      4800*     9600     19200      38400
      2     (35)      2250      4650*     9450     19050      38250
      3     (50)      2100      4500*     9300     18900      38100
      4     (80)      1800      4200*     9000     18600      37800
      5    (140)      1200      3600*     8400     18000      37200
      6    (260)                2400      7200     16800      36000*
      7    (500)                          4800     14400      33600
      8    (980)                                    9600      28800
      9   (1940)                                              19200

                         11        12        13        14        15
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)      76900    153700    307300    614500   1273900
      1     (20)      76800    152600    307200    614400   1273800
      2     (35)      76650    152450    307050    614250   1273650
      3     (50)      76500    152300    306900    614100   1273500
      4     (80)      76200    152000    306600    613800   1273200
      5    (140)      75600    151400    306000    613200   1272600
      6    (260)      74400    150200    304800    612000   1271400
      7    (500)      72000    147800    302400    609600   1269000
      8    (980)      67200    143000*   297600    604800   1264200
      9   (1940)      57600    133400    288000    595200   1254600
     10   (3860)      38400    114200    268800    576000   1235400
     11   (7700)                76800    231400    538600   1198000
     12  (15380)                         153600    460800   1120200
     13  (30740)                                   307200    966600
     14  (61460)                                             659400

                         16        17        18        19
Inner orbit number

      0     (10)    2457700   4915300   9830500  19665900
      1     (20)    2457600   4915200   9830400  19665800
      2     (35)    2457450   4915050   9830250  19665650
      3     (50)    2457300   4914900   9830100  19665500
      4     (80)    2457000   4914600   9829800  19665200
      5    (140)    2456400   4914000   9829200  19664600
      6    (260)    2455200   4912800   9828000  19663400
      7    (500)    2452800   4910400   9825600  19661000
      8    (980)    2448000   4905600   9820800  19656200
      9   (1940)    2438400   4896000   9811200  19646600
     10   (3860)    2419200   4876800   9792000  19627400
     11   (7700)    2380800   4838400   9753600  19589000
     12  (15380)    2304000   4761600   9676800  19512200
     13  (30740)    2150400   4608000   9523200  19358600
     14  (61460)    1843200   4300800   9216000  19051400
     15 (127400)    1183800   3641400   8556600  18392000
     16 (245780)              2457600   7372800  17208200
     17 (491540)                        4915200  14750600
     18 (983060)                                  9835400
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>In my humble opinion, the multiple conflicting definitions for UWP
>government codes is the single most serious problem with the rules, and
>should be fixed immediately (as in "Is there still time to prepare an
>errata page for the boxed edition?") if not sooner.

This has my vote.  An Errata Sheet is DEFINITELY called for here...


Bertil:
> Further assumptions: The nuke/laser assembly represents the largest
>part of the price of normal missiles. After that comes the electronics
>and the cheapest part is the actual engine.

Before you get too attached to this idea, remember that these missile
all are capable of WELL OVER 100,000m/s delta-V.  These are NOT simple,
solid-fuel missiles.  These are fusion-rocket missiles, and so the
drives are likely to be more expensive than you might guesstimate.

Note also that you are assuming that the det lasers are sprayed wildly
when detonated.  It is probably safe to assume that each lasing element
has the necessary controls to POINT itself at a target before detonation
occurs.


>Cannister missile.
>  This missile releases 15,000 10g 10mm tungsten spheres into a cloud
>to ensure that at least one of them hits the target. The cloud is
>released at a range of 30,000km and the velocity with which it expands
>is automatically selected based on the closing velocity between the
>missile and the target to achieve the maximum probability of a hit.

This is a joke, right?  At 30,000Km, the target ship would have to
expend around _1G-second_ laterally to make sure that the cloud of
pebbles makes a clean miss.



Wildstar:
>pp.191, "TED Government Type" table - new table:
>Die   Code  General Description
<etc>
I like this, but I wonder at the necessity of a TED table at all.  TEDs
are relatively common in classic Trav material (Pavabid, which has a
TED/Religious Dictatorship comes immediately to mind), so why bother
listing it separately?  This sounds like an attempt to codify something
best left to the referee's imagination...

>       If the world government is a TED, the nroll 2d6+3 to determine
>the world's law level.

I disagree with this.  A TED CANNOT maintain tight control with a
dwindling supply of HighTech goodies.  What he will have is a HIGH Law
Level WHERE HE IS AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT, and almost NO Law Level anywhere
else (since it is NOT in his interests to establish a real government to
run things - they might decide HE is optional, especially if they have
access to his goodies.  If they DON'T, then they will be pretty much
incapable of running things (think of Prison Trustees, in the absence of
Guards)).

                                ---Steve Higginbotham

#5550 Re: Comments and Tables and Stuff...

Yesterday on TML, Steve Higginbotham wrote:
> >Can you provide corrected tables?
> Yes...  Oh, you mean NOW?!?  Sure:

Thanks.  The more errors stomped now, the better!  Of course, if GDW had
been able to get us a copy of the text for about a week *before* sending
it to the printers, these errors could have been fixed already ...

> >pp.191, "TED Government Type" table - new table:
> I like this, but I wonder at the necessity of a TED table at all.  TEDs
> are relatively common in classic Trav material (Pavabid, which has a
> TED/Religious Dictatorship comes immediately to mind), so why bother
> listing it separately?  This sounds like an attempt to codify something
> best left to the referee's imagination...

I know.  However, T:TNE seems to consider TEDs important (probably
because the TED code indicates "Opportunity for Player Characters to
Engage in Officially Sanctioned Excessive Violence Against Generally
Inferior Opposition" for Star Viking players).  My fix preserves (at
least IMHO) the intent of the rules on pp.191, but without requiring
double definitions for te Government type codes.

After I folded Tribal and the two Mystic governments into the existing
codes, that left the TEDs.  Since they are important to T:TNE, I needed
to put the code somewhere, so I put it in the Allegiance.  That left
nothing in the UWP Government code.  One possibility is to code all of
these worlds as type 6 (Captive Government) and leave it up to the
referee.   I should note that you are still free to do this.

On the other hand, as you pointed out, many different kinds of
governments can be TEDs.  Pavabid came to my mind also (that's the world
from the "Divine Intervention" Classic Traveller Double Adventure).
Others are certainly possible; however I have noted that T:TNE tends to
assume that TEDs are typically Non-Charismatic Leaders.  To make the
different government types explicit, and as an aid to the referee's
imagination, I provided the TED Government Table.

I ranked the various governments by my estimation of their
probability of becoming a TED, and filled in the table accordingly.  A
large majority of them will be Non-Charismatic Leaders or Totalitarian
Oligarchies, but there is always the possibility of others, all of which
seem at least possible to me.  Some of them could lead to some very
interesting adventures for Star Vikings that don't do their homework and
undercover work.

> >       If the world government is a TED, the nroll 2d6+3 to determine
> >the world's law level.
> I disagree with this.  A TED CANNOT maintain tight control with a
> dwindling supply of HighTech goodies.  What he will have is a HIGH Law
> Level WHERE HE IS AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT, and almost NO Law Level anywhere
> else (since it is NOT in his interests to establish a real government to
> run things - they might decide HE is optional, especially if they have
> access to his goodies.  If they DON'T, then they will be pretty much
> incapable of running things (think of Prison Trustees, in the absence of
> Guards)).

I restricted myself to fixing up the Government codes, so that the one
"Normal" government code table could be used everywhere.  I very
carefully preserved everything else in the original T:TNE rules;
including Law Level.  If you look carefully, when all the appropriate
modifiers have been added, the roll on original pp.191 will be 2d6+3.

This doesn't mean that it's right, but simply that my modification only
affects the government code value used (and the allegiance, for TEDs)
and doesn't change anything else.

One possible interpretation: the TED's law level is that which applies
to strangers, and/or near the TED, with the rest of the world enjoying a
lower (possibly much lower) law level.


[email removed]
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                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                            in the New Era