I've been off in jumpspace for the last week or so, but now I am getting
around to responding to some of the recent threads here on TML.
About the "Virus" and Challenge 64:
*SIGH* I've just about given up; someone (actually many someones) at
GDW has forgotten that the name of the game is Science-Fiction Roleplaying.
The Challenge material fails as science-fiction: it fails to consider
the effect of the development of sentient computer chips within the
context of human society. In other words, the author should pose to him
or her self a series of "What if ..." questions, looking for plausible
answers that present interesting story opportunities.
I find it extremely difficult to believe that the question "What if
someone discovered intelligent computer chips?" has one and only one
answer: "People would build them into walkie-talkies and forget their
very existance." What about the issue of "all sentient life-forms are
protected citizens of the Imperium". These sophont computer chips are
naturally-occurring, evolved creatures; definitely life-forms! Is this
a major form of slavery within interstellar society, or are the Cymbiots
paid employees of the ship owner, free to quit at any time? If they are
de-facto slaves, how do they feel about it? They are sentient creatures
capable of forming their own opinions, aren't they? How have they
affected the computer, robotics, and information industries? How do
humans feel about these intelligences; are they threatened by such an
alien intelligence? What are the primary motivations, goals, desires,
and philosophies of these creatures? Does anyone at GDW have any
functioning brain cells left?
Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but this is *DISCOURAGING*
(The above can be forwarded to GDW if anyone thinks that it will make
any sort of difference at this point. Personally I feel that GDW is
determined to create a product that will be as much of a commercial
success as Space:1889 and will be as long-lived as Traveller:2300)
Now on a (slightly) more upbeat note, *IF* TNE is at all playable as a
rules system, *AND* if it is adaptable to a different background than
the New Era (both looking like pretty big if's at this point), then how
about all of us here on TML createing a co-operative background history?
One that makes sense, and one that we can all use to build on
one-another's efforts. TML has the capacity of generating several times
the output of GDW, at least as far as background material is concerned.
I rather like Robert Dean's subsector project as a pilot project for
this sort of thing.
George W. Herbert writes:
> Given as how it's set in stone by now, however, that's sort
> of a moot point (oh, shoot the Moot while we're at it). Moving right along,
> I'm just going to keep writing adventures and such. I figure it can't
> do too much damage. (heh). Good backgrounds always are worth working
> with, no matter what the rules are. I figure that TNE is going to
> be a background worth writing in. After all, MT was... 8-)
For me, the Rebellion was not even worth playing in. We used the MT
rules on several occasions, and the Rebellion background once. All in
all, everyone enjoyed the game; but everyone was also quite sick of
death, destruction, factioanlism and civil war by the time the campaign
ended. And as near as I can tell right now, the New Era is going to be
even worse.
> Every month, GDW puts out a Challenge with +- (argument's sake)
> 15,000 words of Traveller material. A rough approxomation of TML
> traffic is more like 50kwords, at least 15kwords of which is non-story
> or PBEM related. I.e. we're doing more talking about Traveller than
> they are publishing by a large amount.
> How come it is, then, that with dozens of great posts, rules,
> and ideas bobbing around the group here, there are only a handful
> of us getting published? Looking around, I strongly suspect that
> there's more talent here than anywhere else in one grouping
> (not impugning the GDW staff or HIWG, but there are a lot'o people
> on TML... 8-) . So how come nobody here writing stuff and sending
> it to GDW? While we're here fuming about GDW ignoring or disliking
> the TML list or its people, they're sitting there going "Gee, we've
> got this loud crowd of people that complain and argue a lot and never
> submit us anything." ...
I get the overwhelming impression that nobody at GDW is really
interested in what anyone else has to say. A lot of the TML traffic is
rules variants, or pertains to one or more divergent background
histories. Do you really think that GDW is interested in this stuff?
> WRITE IT UP AND SEND IT IN! If you don't think you can write well,
> bounce it off one of the better writers here for editorial comments
> or help. (I volounteer if need be 8-). You're energetic enough to
> argue about it for days; why not just write it up and see if GDW buys it?
OK, I'll give it a try. I have literally reams of stuff here in my
files; it will get typed up and sent here to TML for comment and
criticism. If anyone thinks that it is worth the postage, I will then
submit it to GDW. Fair warning, though: more than 90% of it pertains to
Classic Traveller, the Third Imperium era, or to one or more alternate
background histories.
About Stutterwarp, Steve H. writes:
> > Dan:
> >if one was to fire a sandcaster in the path of a stuterwarp ship.
> >When It went to materialize in the cloud of sand what sort of problems
> >would it have (if any).
>
> It would have quite a lot of problems, IF it did something so silly as
> to fly through such. Since a stutterwarp ship normally fights at ranges
> of several to many light seconds, the odds of it passing through a sand
> cloud are about zero, unless the Captain is a suicidal idiot. Normally,
> such a ship will stay a couple of hours at six-Gs away from you, and
> your sand won't do anything, except obscure your vision.
How about a stutterwarp-powered missile (or better yet, a whole bunch of
them) launched from a conventional ship. Instead of high explosive,
have a proximity fuse connected to a sandcaster round. Have the missile
home in on the stutterwarp ship, and detonate in its path. If the ship
is not too badly damaged by this, then launch a bunch more, and surround
the ship with sand. Now that you've gotten the thing to stand still,
you can fire at it with conventional weapons, or come alongside at your
lesiure for a boarding action.
Robert S. Dean's "Gamba Project" (A capital idea!):
A couple of points about my interpretation of world statistics. First
of all, I interpret them as reflecting the status of the world's
residents, without traders, military or scout personnel, or any Imperial
facilities.
Second, I assume that all Class-A starports are effectively at TL-10
and Class-B starports are effectively TL-9 (even if the world TL is
lower; this simply means that spare parts and technical crews are
imported from off-world).
A couple of worlds strike me as having a good bit of potential:
0109 Motet C898735-3 AG Y
Obviously an agro world feeding Madrigal, and maybe other parts of the
subsector as well. Good destination for traders looking for an unususl
cargo
0110 MADRIGAL B7989DE-6 S IND Y
The industrial powerhouse of the subsector. I don't believe that
commercially important worlds need to be high-tech. Madrigal is quite
capable of producing industrial goods that would be useful to worlds
anywhere from TL-3 to TL-9 (which includes most of the worlds in the
subsector). For export to lower-tech worlds, it probably produces heavy
machinery and mining and agricultural equipment; for high tech worlds,
Madrigal likely exports machine tools, precision equipment, and some
consumer goods. It also is the major source of refined chemicals and
bulk metals (iron and steel ingots, barstock, plates, pipes and other
useful materials). Total production is likely to be more than a
hundred million tons annually. The class B starport is maintained
by and for the convenience of Madrigal's customers, and the cost of imported
skills and technology is part of the cost of doing business.
Madrigal may even be able to fabricate starship hulls, hull components,
drive mounts, weapons systems, turrets, and dozens of other fittings for
spacecraft which can be fabricated with their technology. These
components can them be shipped to other, higher-tech worlds for
assembly, and installation of the high-tech drives, computers, and
equipment. In this way, the limited shipyard capacity of the subsector
might be augmented (a shipyard crew could assemble a Liberty ship in
under 100 hours from pre-fab parts; Kaiser even made escort carriers
this way; nearly 100 of these CVE's were built between 1943 and
1945).
Given the government and high law level, I would suggest that Madrigal's
religeon promotes a strong work ethic and a strict code of behavoir.
Since the government is the religeon, such codes would have the force of
law; not a problem for believers, but for off-worlders and
non-believers, the code of conduct, clothing and
behavoir standards, and required observances would be nearly impossible
to keep straight. Quite possibly unbelievers, heretics, and political
dissidents are exiled to a specific geographic area (probably originally
an undesirable island or sub-continent. The starport is probably also
located here (off-worlders are unbelievers, after all); believers are
allowed to travel to the starport (but consider it distasteful or
faintly sinful), while unbelievers and offworlders are restricted.
As the only industrial world in the subsector, Madrigal probably is used
to being in a seller's market; there may be increasing tension between
Madrigal and other worlds (primarily Weelkes). Madrigal's strategy is
probably to try to increase its tech level to stay competitive.
0405 Lawes EAC9200-8 NI N
Known locally as "Lawless"; a rough-and-ready mining outpost.
0408 Forqueray A353546-B N NI, P Y
The primary Imperial Navy base of the area; most of the "permanent"
inhabitabts (thos that show on the UPP) are in some way connected to the
Navy base: contractors, civillian support staff, dependents, merchants
and all the business that would usually surround a major installation.
The TL of 11 probably represents the average amenities enjoyed by the
pernament residents. The Naval facilities are probably on a par with
usual Imperial Navy practice: TL-14 or TL-15, including shipyards, a
naval medical center, and probably a mothball fleet orbiting somewhere
in the system. Civillian contractors will happily do work for private
citizens, too (provided such work does not interfere with their Navy
commitments); therefore this world probably has an effectively TL-15
capability for starship construction and repair (but you will probably
pay several times the normal rate for the work).
0501 Pardessus A114523-E S NI Y
Given the high TL and the scout base here, Pardessus is probably a major
IISS facility; certainly the primary site for Scout construction,
maintainance, training, and operational control in this subsector. In
many ways it will be the IISS equivalent of Forqueray.
0803 Weelkes C112888-A S NA Y
Weelkes is almost an industrial world; but it is handicapped by a small
labor force, and an inadequate starport (which probably reflects a
general under-capitalization of the whole economy). Presumably this is
because an inordinate amount of resources are consumed simply by living
on this rather inhospitable world. Presumable selected because of the
ready availability of some resource (ore? solar power?). Presumably the
major priorities of the government is to encourage immigration and
off-world investment, so that Weelkes can "ramp up" to being a major
industrial producer.
An source of adventures might be the increasing rivalry between Weelkes
and Madrigal. Madrigal can offer high-quality, relatively low-tech
goods and a reputation for delivering on time and under budget. Weelkes
can offer high-tech (at least, high-tech for this subsector) goods, but
is probably having quality-control and delivery problems. But they are
number two: they try harder.
Robert Dean writes:
>If you use the Classic Traveller description of class A starports as the only
>facilities containing ship yards, and the shipyard capacities from Trillion
>Credit Squadron, you reach the conclusion that there are only four potential
>commercial shipbuilding sites in the subsector, at Galliard (TL14), Pardessus
>(TL14), Forqueray (TL11) and Lassus (TL13). The total "drydock" capacity of
>these four sites is 150 tons, 150 tons, 150 tons and 1200 tons respectively.
>So, only Lassus can build anything bigger than a Scout ship. It is my inten-
>tion to stick to Book 2 starship designs for this exercise, which makes things
>a little easier overall, since Jump limits are based on hull size rather than
>tech level.
I would apply population multipliers (something I did even before Grand
Survey came out for Classic Traveller) to all of the worlds. Throwing
my trusty d10, for the four shipbuilding worlds, I get multipliers of 5,
9, 1, and 6; this would make the shipyard capacities 750, 1,350, 150,
and 7,200 tons respectively. If prefab parts from Madrigal are used to
speed construction, it might even be reasonable to assume that shipyards
on these worlds achieve two or three times the average productivity when
working with standard designs (on the other hand, the average wait for
custom designs may be several years before constrution even begins).
This gives us a total of 491,400 ton-weeks of shipyard capacity for
construction. I will assume (without checking my facts, though) that
Madrigal, Marais, Fantasia, Simpson, and Adriano are negligible in
construction and maintainance capacity (Madrigal probably is not).
The equilibrum equation is X=(U*(N+M))/(4+(T/L)) and the condition is
that X<=(U*N)/(T/L).
U == Shipyard Utilization Factor == 1.00
N == New Ship Construction Capacity == 491,400 ton-weeks
M == Maintainance Capacity == assumed to be zero
T == Ship Construction Time == 9600 ton-weeks for a 200 ton ship
L == Lifespan of an average ship == 100 years if well maintained
Therefore, X is approximately 510 ships, or 102,000 aggregate tons.
This fleet is composed of smaller ships than the average for the
Imperium, and they are older than the average, as well. Since the
shipbuilding capacity of the Imperium is not evenly distributed, it
seems reasonable that many ships are imported from outside the subsector
to suppliment the local production. Most ships are probably 200 ton
types, with a small number of 400 and 800 ton ships (a *VERY* small
number, probably; and most of them imported). Forqueray is probably new
in the starship construction business, and probably produces only two or
three designs (a type S, a purpose-built seeker, and a 150-ton "stretch
seeker" intended as a low-cost general merchanter).
>Assuming a reasonable ship life, and a need to perform maintenance for two
>weeks out of each year, we find that Lassus can support a total fleet of
>shipping, military and civilian, totalling around 19,000 tons. Ships are
>either going to come from beyond the subsector, or be fairly scarce,or both.
>I don't know that this would work, so I have designated Weelkes as a potential
>ship source. Weelkes would have a shipyard capacity of 120,000 tons, and
>would be rated as an industrial planet if its population was 9 instead of 8.
It would be reasonable to assume that Weelkes is trying to become an
Industrial world, and can rapidly eclipse Madrigal as an important world
in the subsector. Let's rather arbitrarily assign it a population
multiplier of 5. With a starport of class C, Weelkes is not going to be
able to produce starships for a while, but we can assume that they are
currently in the process of upgrading to class B by installing shipyards
but there are not yet jump-drive fabrication facilities.
Robert S. Dean writes:
> Hans Rancke-Madsen [email removed] writes:
> > The one (roughly) ton shipyard capacity per 1000 inhabitants in TCS is
> > naval capacity only. No mention is made anywhere about civilian shipping.
> > My own rule of thumb is two ton of commercial shipping for each ton of
> > warship.
> I don't recall a specific ruling on this, and I always worked under the
> assumption that it was the total capacity, figuring that in war the govern-
> ment would take control of _all_ shipyards for war work, and in peacetime
> they'd contract the maintenance work that overflowed from the Navy shipyards
> out to civilian shipyards, so that there was really very little distinction
> between the two. But, as I say, that's just my interpetation. If you look at
> the capacity for a Population 9 world, you tend to wonder what they are doing
> with the surplus...
I don't ever remember a clear ruling on this either, but I have always
assumed that the capacity rules from TCS were total capacity. Then
again, I have also used the population multipliers in the TCS formula
(which was originally written before there *WERE* population
multipliers), so my calculations average about 5 times the total ship
production capacity as the original TCS rules. My rationalization is
that the original TCS rules considered only the shipyard capacity
available for military construction, while the results with the
population multipliers produce *TOTAL* capacity. I freely admit that
this assumption is crude at best, and may be unworkable. Anybody care
to think up a variant rule for this (there is one percolating in the
back of my mind, but it is not ready to come out yet).
Another data point for trade-and-commerce economics fans: Immediately
prior to the outbreak of WWII, the British Isles imported about 55
million tons annually. Included in this total was about all of Great
Britian's POL (Petrol/Oil/Lubricants) needs, most of her foodstuffs
nearly all of the ores and raw materials required by her industry, and a
suprising amount of manufactured goods (particularly machine tools).
During the worst part of the Battle of the Atlantic, imports were
reduced to an annulized rate of 30 million tons per year (about half of
this was food). During the war, the US firm of Kaiser produced
prefabricated ships (Liberty Ships). Each one displaced about 4000 tons
(that's tons *MASS* folks, empty) and could carry about 7000 tons of
cargo (again, tons *MASS*). The Liberty ships could make about 12-14
knots, and could be built in as little as 4 days (from prefabricated
components, working round-the-clock). *** The preceeding data from
Keegan's _The Price of Admiraly_; more recommended reading for TML-ers.
In TRAVELLER terms, a liberty ship is about 800 displacement tons
(assuming that the average cargo is about 1 mass ton per cubic meter of
volume) with about 500 displacement tons of cargo (no passengers).
By figuring the average journey to and from resource worlds, one can
figure out the number of ships needed to supply the required level of
imports.
55 million tons annually is about 7860 full loads for the hypothetical
Traveller starship described above. Assuming that the ship only makes
jump-1 (reasonable, because 62.5% of this ship is devoted to cargo), and
that the average source world is two parsecs away, then we have a
minimum round-trip voyage of 6 weeks per load (two weeks outbound, one
week loading, two weels inbound, and one week to unload; a
minimum-length refuelling stopover is assumed at the intermediate
point). Each ship makes 8 trips per year, with four weeks for overhaul.
Therefore, the merchant fleet serving this world will have to be about
983 ships with an aggregate tonnage of 786,400 displacement tons. THe
traffic flow rate will be between 21 and 22 arrivals per day (with a like
number of departures, of course).
Remember - this is to support a population and economy the size of
pre-WWII british isles. Some Traveller high-population worlds will have
single cities larger than this.
Robert Dean writes:
>Agricola: Standard atmosphere water world, with a native population of
>mammalian amphibians, plus a human/dolphin colony. The natives are balkan-
>ized, with the main source of conflict being over islands which are re-
>quired for breeding grounds and technology platforms. Pregnant females and
>young children can't swim, so they need boats or islands.
I like this idea; asingle minor race will add some interest to an
otherwise generally bland subsector.
>Canzona: Settled by even more fanatical religious dissidents from Madrigal,
>who are split up into groups that can't agree. Potential Amber travel
>classification.
How about from the same sect that colonized Madrigal (both planets
colonized at the same time from approximately the same population
source, with roughly the same beliefs). On Madrigal, the religon has
remained homogenous (probably for geopolitical reasons, combined with
the tendancy to isolate dissidents on an island). On Canzona, the
church has split into many different sects (nations) each one claiming
to be the One True Faith. Disputes over borders, resources, and
religious questions cause minor wars all the time. Amber zone
classification, and potential adventure interest.
Robert Dean writes:
> [Somebody else writes and I forgot to save the attribution - sorry]:
> 0806 Brade C8B7410-7 NI Y
> > Company world. Law level non-existent. I think any company would
> > maintain dicipline, so I'd interpret that as "Law not enforced
> > outside starport compound" (Starport is owned by company - in
> > fact, it IS the company building). So how does the company make
> > money? Independent hunters or collectors goes out into that
> > corrosive atmosphere and collect something valuable (what?). The
> > company has a monoply on buying. They couldn't care less that
> > one hunter/collector kills another for his haul, they get the
> > stuff in the end, anyway.
>
> OK. I like this, so it's now "official". What are they collecting?
> Anybody else got any ideas?
Well, it depends on what the corrosive atmosphere is made out of. My
suggestion is that the atmosphere contains various and sundry nasty
gasses (cyanide, chlorine, or ammonia come to mind, although some more
interesting organic compounds might be a good idea). However, a number
of very interesting plants grow here; the raw plant material is
manufactured into drugs, spices, and "recreational pharmecuticals"
(depending of course, on which plant is harvested, and who does the
processing). The plants extract compounds from the atmosphere
and combine them with trace minerals from their growing region to "build"
the substances of interest. So far, actually farming the plants has
proven impractical, and synthesizing the compounds is more expensive
than refining them from plant matter (but research continues on both
fronts).
THe best plants probably grow in specialized habitats (for example, one
kind might be semi-aquatic, and grow like lily-pads in shallow pools of
whatever nasty substance passes for water on Brade.
A pharmecutical corporation (SuSAG?) operates the starport and is the
only legal purchaser of the raw Bradeian plants. Some species are
refined into drugs, while others are sold as spices. Because of the
nature of SuSAG's monopoly, there are a number of attempts at "Black
Market" harvesting - especially for the illegal drug trade. Wilderness
landings on Brade are possible, but dangerous (for two reasons; the
planet is dangerous enough to begin with, and SuSAG takes very unkindly
to smugglers).
In addition to the various human threats, some of the animal life-forms
of Brade can be dangerous to the unwary. Alltogether, the life of a
Bradeian Gatherer is not an easy one. Because there is no effective law
on Brade save what SuSAG wants to enforce, many of the gatherers are
fugitives from other worlds in the subsector.
Adrian Hurt [email removed] writes:
> Hans Rancke-Madsen [email removed] writes:
> > 0105 Fantasia A99A522-8 NI Y
> > Large waterworld with either large colony or small independent
> > population. Could be a co-op seaharverster outfit.
> This is another one of the classic Traveller worlds. Will someone please
> explain to me how a TL 8 world can support a class A starport? As I
> understand it, a class A starport can, by definition, build and repair
> starships, i.e. jump drives, i.e. must be at least TL 9. Bases, captive
> worlds or other forms of outside influence might allow some outsider to
> own, run and supply the starport independantly of the planet, but none of
> these apply here.
I usually treat cases like this as meaning that the sustained TL of the
world is 8; however, the starport has (at a minimum) TL-10 facilities
available. In cases like this it means that either the world is more
advanced in space travel than in most other areas (unlikely), or that
the parts and skills are imported from more advanced worlds. In many
cases this would be because the world is an important importer or
exporter; in others this would be because it is located astride several
trade routes, and is in a convenient location for serving many
starships. Other possabilities include a corporate service facility
which uses offworld technology and local (read cheap) labor or
real-estate.
> > 0110 MADRIGAL B7989DE-6 S IND Y
> > Who is paying for the Class B Starport? The tech level is too low
> > to support starships, so someone is importing the technicians and
> > parts to keep it going. The local government?
> The local government, supported by disgustingly high taxes, backed up by
> a law level that prosecutes you if you sneeze the wrong way.
Madrigal is an industrial world; they probably charge the cost of the
port to their customers. They are the only one in the subsector, and
can probably charge whatever they want for machine tools, processed
chemicals, and milled steel. So they probably have a strong economy,
and enjoy a substantial trade surplus (and a law level that prosecutes
you if you fail to utter the proper prayer after sneezing).
Robert S. Dean [email removed] writes:
>You have a point. OK. Let's go for adventure potential. Adriano was a
>normal world with a population of 7 or 8 until a few years ago, when a
>plague so violent and untreatable appeared and killed off the entire
>population, as per your suggestion. This will now be the single most
>important feature of the entire subsector, as research will show that it
>was a modified Ricercaran disease which _must_ have been deliberately
>spread. Who would gain by murdering an entire planetary population? A
>mystery, and an overwhelmingly important one that must be solved soon!
>
>(We won't leave this a mystery for ever, since it is my intention to decide
>on all such details in this forum, as part of the GMing exercise originally
>mentioned.)
I like this idea! This mystery could be the focus of an entire campaign
as long and complex as those presented in "The Traveller Adventure".
Hans Rancke-Madsen [email removed] writes:
> Rob Dean writes:
[Rules for constructing commercial starships]
> > I don't recall a specific ruling on this,
> Me neither. As I wrote, there's no mention of civilian starships anywhere.
As far as I know, there aren't any anywhere. We should probably hammer
some out; I think that the shipyard capacity should be based on
population, tech level, trade classification, and perhaps on government
type and/or law level. The biggest problem is in deciding what level of
interstellar commerce we want the result to reflect; perhaps this can be
reduced to a table of factors.
> >and I always worked under the assumption that it was the total capacity,
> >figuring that in wartime the govern-
> >ment would take control of _all_ shipyards for war work,
> Any government that interfered too much with the merchant marine in wartime
> would run out of essential goods right speedily. Think about the British
> Merchant Marine during WWII.
Exactly. In wartime, the government would probably supervise production
to make the most out of the available capacity. Merchant Marine ships
would probably be restricted to a few absolutely standard, well-proven
designs that lend themselves to mass production and pre-fabricated
parts. Other industries would be pressed into service making these
parts (example: Singer's sewing machine factories produced machinegun
parts during WWII, and many automotive plants were used to produce
aircraft components). Reserve capacity would be utilized, and efficency
increased, so that additional capacity was available for warship
construction.
Existing TRAVELLER rules (Trillion Credit Squadron and Fifth Frontier
War) do not really provide for any type of economic warfare (in the
sense that it was waged in WWII by Germany's U-boats in attempting to
cut off Britain's imports and starve the country into submission; or
even in the sense conducted by the Allied strategic bombing campaign in
attempting to destroy the enemy's industrial ability to wage war).
Because of this, it is extremely difficult to gauge the level of
interstellar trade, and the effects of different wartime strategies on
trade and planetary economies. This is probably something we can fix
here on TML; once these questions are answered, it becomes much easier
to talk about piracy, economic warfare, and tax bases for inperial
budgets.
Steve H. writes:
> I don't like the "plague world". What kind of plague
> is there that TL14 techniology shouldn't
> be able to deal with? Yes, I've read "Speaker
> for the Dead", but I'm not willing to bet that
> something like the Descolada couldn't be beaten by Imperial technology.
There are probably very few diseases that couldn't be beaten by Imperial
technology. However, there will still be plague worlds: the question is
will the population be decimated before effective help arrives? How far
away is the help in relation to the speed of the spread of the disease?
After such a disaster, it may be easier and cheaper to simply interdict
the world than to try and develop and disseminate a cure.
> As to "Ancient sites", I've never bothered to use
> one. Mostly because everyone I've ever
> played with has been completely turned off by the
> idea of playing archeologist. And if it's
> not archeology, it's dungeon plunging.
Well, in the past my players have included an anthropologist and an
archaeologist --- you might say they were interested; one of them even
turned what I thought was going to be a simple dungeon crawl into a
full-fledged dig. Anchient sites *can* be fun, but you've got to think
more in terms of archaeology a la Indiana Jones rather than archaeology
as it is actually practised as a science. Good examples include FASA's
"Legend of the Sky Raiders" and "Trail of the Sky Raiders", or the
"Visit to Antiquity" found in an early Travellers' Digest. An anchient
site should probably be somewhere in the subsector; players that are
interested in such things will want it, while those that are not can
just ignore it.
> "University Planets" I don't buy. Not until someone
> can show me a "University country" on
> Earth. Talk about overspecialization. Not
> to mention that the level of available shipping
> already described wouldn't be able to handle the off-planet support required.
Well, while there may not be any purely academic planets in a backwater
like Gamba, there is probably at least one somewhere in the Imperium.
On the other hand, there may be a world well-known for its excellence in
education, that draws the best students from many parsecs around to
study in its institutions. While there are no "university countries"
here on earth, many students come from abroad to study at US colleges,
and the US has many "university cities" - take Blacksburg VA as an
example.
Oh, on the subject of the original SF origins of GDW's Traveller
concepts, I note that there is a planet Mongo in the Jewell subsector.
Somehow, I sincerely doubt that this name originated at GDW; in fact, I
wonder if it was used with permission?
As a point of fact, I doubt that there are very many things in Traveller
that were not written about in SF literature first. Marc Miller and GDW
were simply the first to take all of the elements of classic
hard-science SF and assemble them all in a role-playing game.
timothy k istian soholt [email removed] writes:
A few of my own thoughts on Gamba subsector:
> > 0705 Jenkins E87A000-5 -- Y
> How about this: the tech was recently upgraded when the surviving
> members of the survey team decided to quit the Service and settle
> on the planet. (Remember that a population code of 0 means less
> than ten people, not no people.)They're cordial enough to trav-
> elers, but they do their best to keep incoming ships to the land-
> ing pad they've laid out near their homes, and they ask visitors
> to get their business over with and leave. The Scouts are, in
Now that's an interesting new explanation for one of these!
> fact, protecting the indigenous population (which doesn't show up
> on the surveys because they doctored the records) from exploi-
> tation -- anyone have any ideas what the natives could have that
> would be significant enough to Imperial interests that they
> would be in mortal danger if the rest of the galaxy found out?
In a case like this, why wouldn't the normal IISS protective
interdiction be better? Is there some reason why protective
interdiction was not granted, or even asked for? Are the scouts
themelves exploiting the indegenous population? I think this part needs
a little more thought, but it has promise ...
> Atmospheric taint would likely be large amounts of water in the
> air.
This counts as a taint? I've always assumed that a taint was something
which would be extremely unpleaseant at very best, is usually harmful,
and can be fatal at worst. Then again, I'm in the Washington, DC area,
and we have large amounts of water in the air for most of the summer.
Adrian Hurt [email removed] writes:
> 0705 Jenkins E87A000-5 -- Y
> Either there is one family living there, or the local population was wiped
> out by something but some of the machinery is still around. That class E
> starport on a water world of TL 5 makes me wonder if an enterprising team
> of adventurers might be able to pick up an aircraft carrier for free? :-)
> Or, perhaps there are a few people there, survivors of a ship which crash
> landed. I can just imagine their faces when the survey team said "This is
> a _survey_ mission, not a rescue mission. But we've noted your presence -
> a rescue team should be along some time soon" - just before the Imperium
> collapsed. :-)
How about one of these two: Jenkins could belong to a single family
(likely noble, or filthy rich, or both) who maintain a residence on this
otherwise commercially-unexploitable world for pleasure (perhaps
great-grandad, founder of the sector-wide trading line, was an avid
fisherman, and Jenkins is where he put his "fishing lodge"). The
current head of the family is more interested in making money than going
fishing, and visits only very rarely; the only permanent residents being
the caretaker and his family. Another classic alternative would be a
colony-ship that was bound for a different world misjumped
or crash-landed here. The few survivors proceeded to do the best they
could, and hope for rescue. By the time they were discovered, the
remaining colonists had given up on rescue, and had built a life for
themselves on Jenkins; therefore they refused "rescue". Now the
colonizing agency has a problem: should they support this de-facto
colony on Jenkins or not? And how would the current residents of
Jenkins feel about a whole horde of new colonists descending on their
little island colony?
[email removed] (Scott "2g" Kellogg) writes:
> When I think about Class A starports, I have a little trouble
> sometimes. I tend to envision large international airports:
> Dulles, Atlanta, BWI, LAX, Chicago, Heathrow, Newark etc. Now
> those to me say 'Class A'. However, not one of those has anything
> to do with manufacturing capacity.
Well, from the Traveller rules, there is not much "official" difference
between Class A, B, and C ports *EXCEPT* the availability of shipyards
for construction and repair. By extension, the class A and B ports have
more traffic, as both a cause and an effect of their repair and
construction facilities.
You might be better off thinking of starports the way an 18th- or 19th-
century sea captain might think about seaports. The best ports (like
Baltimore, Liverpool, Cherbourg, Brest, Boston, and many others) could
supply almost anything needed in the way of provisions, and repairs.
Shipyards where there to construct new ships; drydocks were available
for major repairs, and any number of businesses catered to the maritime
trade. The second-class ports had no builder's ways or drydocks, but
could do almost anything else. On the other end of the spectrum, simply
getting fresh water and provisions was an adventure at some ports of
call.
Quantity of shipping does not need to be directly related to the
presence of construction and repair facilities. I'm quite sure that
there are some class A ports which get less traffic than a class D port
at a busy mining outpost.
> Where are the big ship builders/aircraft manufacturers? Well, most
> of the US aircraft companies are out on the west coast. Boeing's
> out there in Washington state, Lockheed's in California, the ship
> builders aren't exactly in the large population ports either. GE
> Boats are out in Conneticut. Norfolk is a large place, but it's
> not the HUGE place one thinks of when one say's 'Class A' port.
>
> Point being, that the ship building yards may not always mean there
> is a large port or a large amount of traffic going in and out.
Right. But the Traveller port classifications measure not the amount of
the traffic, but the facilities available. Therefore, Lockheed's plant
in California rates as a Class A airport, while Chicago's O'hare rates
as a Class C (or Class B if someone has a fleet maintanance center
there).
On the other hand, especially in Traveller (like in sailing-ship days)
having a maintainance or construction center far from large
concentrations of shipping means unproductive delays. Imagine a
merchant ship making a run; if the nearest maintainance center is two
jumps off of its route, that will mean *ANOTHER* four weeks of
unproductive time every year; someone who locates a maintainance
facility on the traderoute will certainly get *MUCH* more business. The
same goes for ship construction. Therefore, in Traveller, construction
and maintainance facilities will tend to indicate where the
concentrations of shipping are. But there will be exceptions, and not
every high-traffic world will have a shipyard. In many cases, one high
population or industrial world will import from and export to nearly
half a dozen resource, agricultural, or market worlds in the surrounding
area. One or two class A or B starports will service all of this trade,
probably established where the ships tend to concentrate for
astrographic reasons, or where the skills or resources are readily
available (such as a high-tech industrial world).
> So, what do we need for a large ship building yard? Mainly
> resources. Those resources are the material to physically make the
> ship, and the technology to make it work.
> The technicians needed can be brought in.
> The parallel is steel plants. Now, most people would imagine that
> steel mills would be ideally located near large deposits of iron
> ore right? Wrong! Steel mills are ideally located near large COAL
> deposits. The process of making steel requires more coal than it
> does iron ore. (Pittsburgh?)
I'd argue that the main ingredent is not the resources or the technical
skill; both can be imported. What is important is a location convenient
to your customer base. As it usually works out, this typically means
on a resource world, or an industrial world (both popular destinations,
and able to supply some of the needs of a shipyard).
> Ok, now with economics still working that way, Ship yards need to
> be located near large mineral deposits and sufficient technlogy
> back there to build it up. Technicians can be shipped in.
Large mineral deposits mean lots of cheap ore or processed products,
which means a large volume of trade. Lots of ships means a good
opportunity for starship maintainance facilities, and even starship
construction yards. Technicans and even pre-fabricated parts can be
shipped in if the demand warrants the expense.
> Galliard is one of the main ship builders of Gamba. The system has
> a rich asteroid belt with several drydock asteroids. The Navy uses
> the TL 14 ship yard (Galli-Yard) to maintain some of their older
> escorts and as a storage facility for the sector's mothball fleet.
> The university of Galliard has a highly accredited naval
> architectural and engineering graduate program.
The name "Galli-Yard" is a little silly, but OK so far.
> The ancient site there is of course highly classified, however,
> rumors indicate that the Galli-Yards, were built over the grounds
> of the site. This has prompted speculation that the ancient site
> was originally a shipyard, and that the Navy supposedly took
> advantage of the University's excavation/reconstruction of the
> site. The truth of the matter is unknown, but the University
> students are known to encourage the rumor. Indeed, they point to
> the presence of the sector's only accredited post graduate naval
> archeology program as evidence of the yard's quality. The Ancient
> Society of Engineers is a group of naval architecture and
> engineering students which claims to design and maintain ancient
> starships. (Evidence is however that this is simply a group of
> drunken students) :-)
> There is also the unexplained date of the founding of the yard: It
> is on the Imperial registry as the oldest operational shipyard, and
> is dated as being founded -201,007 years Pre-Imperium.
This sounds like an elaborate hoax (or running joke) perpetrated by the
afore-mentioned drunken eingineering students.
"We are, we are, we are the Ancient Engineers
We can, we can, we can drink forty beers!
Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum and come along with us,
'Cause we don't give a damn for any damn man who don't give a damn for us!
--- Traditioal Galliard Tech student drinking song
[email removed]
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Science-Fiction Adventure
in the Far Future