Subject: 72:02/7272 Avery and Strephon
TS::>> Actually, ghettoization is probably the wrong word. What I'm
::>> thinking of is the planet that becomes a "banana republic" - its
::>> only source of foreign (interstellar) exchange becomes raw
::>> materials that high-tech cultures need but will not pay high
::>> prices for.
TS::>Okay, but didn't this exist in the Imperium too? How is this different
::>in TNE?
It probably did, but when you have several hundred years in which
to work, it's likely that a number of planets will have "grown"
out of the condition. But that was with an empire that expanded
_without_ stripping worlds of technology. If a world is taken by
the RC and sucks up the remnant tech to support the needs of
"integrated" worlds, it's going to be that much harder for the
planet so stripped to recover. Worse, it is entirely likely that
any assistance that the RC gives such a planet later on will be
deliberately focussive in its effects, so that the planet can
realize its "maximum productivity." It's a completely different
attitude than the official materials imply that any of the three
prior empires had.
TS::>> OK, I finally have it straight, once and for all. It's NOT in
::>> AV. It's NOT in TNE itself. It _IS_ in Survival Margin.
TS::>[FACT ALERT: I don't have *SV* either! But if anybody's got a *used*
::>copy . . . . :-) ]
TS::>> On P30, Strephon effectively makes his decision to abdicate by
::>> choosing not to cooperate with IRIS. That this is his attitude,
::>> rather than it being beneath his dignity, is confirmed by the
::>> statement that IRIS will "get me out of this" and by (P31) his
::>> apparent happiness at his claim being disallowed. So we know
::>> that Strephon has abdicated.
TS::>We learned this in *AV* too. We're told that Strephon refused to
::>cooperate with IRIS because he was distraught by the violence and
::>suffering that resulted from his reappearance in Gushemege.
TS::>> to Norris on P51, where he sends Avery "with them" [the AV],
TS::>So Avery appears in *SV* too? Do we learn anything more about him
::>there?
No, he's just as much of an enigma.
TS::>> Strephon confirms Norris's assumption of the title of
::>> Archduke, gives him Jumpstart, and warns him about Longbow. He
::>> also makes it clear that Norris is the only one left to carry on
::>> the traditions of the Imperium. Recall also the Domain's last
::>> words to the interstellar communications network: "We keep the
::>> flame". Though veiled, this can be taken as a reference that
::>> they _know_ that they have the only rightful claim to the mantle
::>> of the 3I.
TS::>Here's an interesting question: does Strephon have this authority?
::>Also, we (the `real' us) are told that Strephon is genuine but the informa
::>in *AV*, including the ref's info, suggests the PCs, and therefore
::>Norris and the rest of the Domain, are less certain. Does *SV* shed any
::>light to confirm to Norris that Strephon is genuine? What good is this
::>`claim to the mantle of the Imperium' if Strephon's identity remains
::>suspect?
But Strephon's identity is _not_ seriously suspect, as far as the
dip team from AV is concerned. There's that look that only a
certain kind of ruler can have, and the Strephon that they meet
has that look. Certainly, outside of Gushemege, the other
factions don't believe it. But his own faction does believe it,
and Norris believes it based on the report from the AV. Norris
even writes a letter acknowledging Strephon's communication.
But even if you don't accept that line of reasoning, if it
pleases "Strephon" to make like he is granting permission for
Norris to do what he has done anyway, and will not undo, what's
the harm? And my statement about the Regency "knowing" that they
still have the only rightful claim can be justified on a "moral"
basis: They alone have remained loyal to the concept of a United
Imperium, with all that that implies.
TS::>> Recall, however, that after a much
::>> shorter period, a previous regent (during the Civil War (in the
::>> 600s)) took the thrown as Regent, rather than Emperor, until she
::>> was asked, by the Moot, to take the title as well as the
::>> authority.
TS::>This suggests that Strephon *didn't* have the authority to `pass the crown
::>on to Norris. In order to become Emperor, he or his descendant would have
::>to be `confirmed' by the Moot - or ignore them like Lucan did. Of course
::>if the only Imperial aristocracy to survive is in the Regency then this
::>issue of Moot approval may become moot. ;-)
This gets a little foggy. As Strephon is still alive, no
succession need take place at this point, and the other factions
are now fighting over which one will win at coup d'etat. Thus,
Strephon does have the right to abdicate and name who he prefers
as his successor. Since this would be an "ordinary" succession,
the Moot will need to meet and confirm the choice, but even
before that meeting occurs, the heir to the throne wields the
power. Technically, one could say that he is his own regent. In
the case of Norris, he knows the law, and prefers to abide by its
spirit. Norris is de facto the Emperor of the Third Imperium,
but he cannot take that title until a Moot convenes and confirms
it. To comply with the spirit of the law, Norris should not
explicitly convene the Moot for the purpose of his confirmation;
rather, he should wait for the high nobles of the Imperium (who
make up the Moot) to come to the conclusion that a meeting of
the Moot is necessary, and then to meet to elect an Emperor. If
this doesn't happen in Norris's lifetime, so be it; Norris will
remain Regent, and pass the Regency on to whom he thinks best
(Avery? His true-daughter Seldrian? His seneschal?). What is
important to Norris is not the title, or the personal power, but
the way that the power is used, and the results that it
engenders. I have no doubt that, if Norris felt that his mere
presence as Imperial ruler was doing more harm than good, he
would step down without hesitation.
TS::>> It is not unreasonable to assume that the same will
::>> happen with Norris or his successor, or possibly Avery or one of
::>> his descendants.
TS::>I agree, but what does this say about the eventual fate of the new
::>Democrats in the Regency?
What was the eventual fate of the new Democrats in the British
Empire? Perhaps the Iridium Throne will become the Presidential
Chair. Perhaps even the democrats will realize that when you are
governing thousands of worlds, it's simply not practical to have
democracy at the highest levels. You need to make decisions, and
to have someone with the authority to do so. You can't wait for
1,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 worlds to vote on the matter and get
back to you; you'd face perpetual governmental paralysis. When
you're talking about waiting a month or two for feedback on
important, but not time-critical, decisions, Democracy is OK.
But when it gets to the point where you must wait the better part
of a year, more and more decisions need to be made too rapidly to
allow for feedback - even with a Jump-6 network. At that point,
a non-democratic structure is the only one that works. A similar
argument can be made for the inherited position - how long can
you afford to wait for the people to make a conclusive decision?
When your empire gets too large to allow for this, you need a
simple, clear, automatic method of replacement. Thus,
inheritance. Thus, monarchy.
TS::>> TML::>The fact that the `Rape
::>> ::>Trin' became wide-spread pubic knowledge
::>> ::>mean that it served Norris's purposes somehow.
::>>
::>> Not necessarily. News that is not in the Government's best
::>> interests _will_ get out somehow. And it will spread by the
::>> fastest available route. Remember a break-in at a major
::>> Washington, DC, hotel, around about 1974?
TS::>Hmmm, this might be a decidely `American' view about press freedoms. Any
::>our British friends care to interject a few words about the "Official
::>Secrets Act"? Watergate is a poor example because powerful political
::>interests (Democrats) existed who benefited greatly from the disclosure.
::>I can't imagine the Isolationists being that powerful in a multi-bloc
::>Regency, unless *Norris* wanted them to be.
Can you really seriously believe that you could suppress the news
of the destruction of even a small city on all of over 1,000
worlds? If it doesn't spread through the official press, it will
spread through the grapevine. Which is worse. You'll get such
outrageous stories that you'll _have_ to come forward with an
official statement, if only to quash the more harmful rumors.
As to the UKOSA, I point out that SpyCatcher was published in
most of the rest of the world, where the UKOSA couldn't reach.
Despite it's autocratic governmental form, the Imperium is more
of a Federal structure than anything else. Individual planets
have a great deal of autonomy, and there is freedom of travel for
those who have the money. To actually implement an OSA in the
Regency, one would have to _tightly_ control not only the X-boat
network, but all of the commercial passenger ships and tramp
freighters as well. Because people _do_ talk. We would be
talking about internal controls on traffic as tight as the
interface controls, and that still won't prevent people from
talking. Similarly with UKOSA: It doesn't really stop me from
meeting an American friend and talking to him, then he goes back
home and writes a book, carefully fogging information that could
identify me. The info is out, despite OSA. Ooops!
TS::>And keep this in mind. If *news* of a Virus assault on Trin (or Gram?)
::>got off-world (or out-system, at least) then the *Virus* might have as wel
::>That's a good enough reason to keep the news under wraps in and of itself.
::>So I maintain, if the news broke, it served Norris's interests.
Not necessarily. Remember, Regency ship-to-ship contact
procedures are designed specifically to restrict the ability of
Virus to spread. And since Virus doesn't spread through human
beings, there's nothing stopping the news from spreading by way
of people doing spacewalks from one ship to another, after
establishing communications by opening up airlocks and waving
flags at each other. Plus, there's lots of low-tech stuff that's
still useful for communication, and can't be infected: How do you
infect a ball-point pen with Virus? or a piece of paper?
Information was tightly controlled in the Soviet Union. That
didn't (most emphatically it didn't) stop underground networks
from forming and passing the news on through channels that the
government _couldn't_ control.
TS::>> No, not really more powerful. The primary evolution of Virus
::>> was toward a non-suicidal, and non-homicidal form - because it
::>> is more conducive to spreading Virus, i.e., survival. This
::>> evolution was facilitated by the ability of many substrains and
::>> strains to interact with each other. But this kind of
::>> interaction is slowed down when you have a situation in which
::>> the spread of Virus is slowed down. Thus, strains of Virus
::>> approaching the protected states through the Vargr Extents will
::>> tend to be earlier strains, and therefore more dangerous ones.
TS::>If you meant to write ". . . this kind of interaction *increases* (rather
::>than *is slowed down*) when you have a situation in which the spread of
::>Virus is slowed down" then I get your point. Sorry I'm so dense. :-)
No, I meant what I wrote. When you restrict the ability of Virus
to spread, the various strains do not have as much opportunity to
interact and modify each other. Thus, less change in Virus.
Thus, the survival of more dangerous homicidal strains, as there
is less competition from "smarter" versions.
TS::>> I refer you to the outcome of the Civil War of the 600s.
::>> History _does_ tend to repeat itself.
TS::>Maybe, but Arbellatra was the `one, true choice' that was so missing in
::>the Rebellion. Norris isn't if any other factional power manages to
::>survive the Collapse. *We* know none have (with the possible exception
::>of whatever's behind the Black Curtain) but *Norris* doesn't - at least
::>not yet.
TS::>> Can _anyone_ descended from
::>> _any_ factional leader, no matter how "good" his/her lineage,
::>> and how pure his/her motives, establish a _morally_ justifiable
::>> claim to the Iridium Throne?
TS::>Certainly. Lucan would have enjoyed universal support if he hadn't been
::>implicated in the death of Varian. (That's why Dulinor tried to have him
::>killed). The Imperium doesn't have the `Klingon' tradition of offspring
::>bearing the burdens of the crimes of the parents so any `kinder, gentler'
::>descendant of Lucan might enjoy widespread support. An usurper in Illelis
::>might gain support if she managed to topple Dulinor - even in Illelish -
::>once Dulinor went completely off the deep end into religious fanaticism.
::>(Convenient how GDW played that, isn't it?) Margaret might have done it
::>in the Rebellion if she hadn't turned out to be a bigot. (More convenienc
::>A `kinder, gentler' descendant of hers would have advantages similar to
::>Lucan's heirs. Likewise `regencies' in Antares or Daibei might offer
::>claims nearly as valid as Norris's and would enjoy similar levels of
::>support in their cores had they managed to survive the onslaught of Virus.
Wait a minute: Dulinor immediately discounted both Varian and
Lucan when he killed "Strephon". Recall that he claimed the IT
by right of assassination. That already means that there's no
clear choice; you have two factions: Ilelish and Core. If Varian
had not been killed, the choice still isn't clear: Varian is the
heir apparent, but there is precedent for ascension by Right of
Assassination. In such a case, what's the right answer? The
last time RoA was invoked, the deceased Emperor had no issue.
But this is mostly beside the point. Except for Deneb, _every_
faction was directly involved in the war for the IT. Except for
Deneb, _none_ of the factions was willing to see anyone but their
choice on the IT. I view that as the reason why (a) Norris
didn't try for the throne himself, and (b) why he withheld his
support from _all_ of the other factions. In light of this
selfishness, and the following isolation, can you be _sure_ that
any descendent of any of the factional leaders is truly operating
from good motives, and not from a tradition of family hatred that
says that the other factions took away what was rightfully
theirs?
Also, both the Ziru Sirkaa and the Federation of Antares
publically seceded from the Imperium. Under such circumstances,
can any descendent of their leaders assert a legitimate claim to
the IT?
TS::>> I suspect that when/if this
::>> situation arises, and push comes to shove, that the people of
::>> the Regency will stand behind the Regent, rather than the
::>> Pretender. At that time, when the _people_ realize that the
::>> Regent is in fact the Emperor, the Regent will "reluctantly
::>> accept the summons to the Iridium Throne."
TS::>Despite my points above, I'm convinced you've divined where GDW is headed.
(sheepish grin) well, it _was_ kind of obvious in the released
material, wasn't it?
==========================================================================
Jeff Zeitlin [email removed]
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~ QMPro 1.52 ~ "Bones, it's Ensign FullaPb." "He's lead, Jim!"