This turned into a very long reply, so I've had to edit some of
it out to prevent boring the TML. I hope Jeff Zeitlin doesn't
object to my cutting of some of the points where we agree.
Jeff Zeitlin writes:
}::>KFC: The K'kreer Freedom Coalition.
}
}Stop reaching! I refuse to allow bad puns to become part of the
}background of my universe! :)
I take it then that you have taken the Sword Worlds, Mongo, and many
other bits of the Traveller universe out of 'your' universe... :-)
}::>K'Kree electronics and robotics was far behind the Hivers and The
}::>Imperium. At their height, the best K'Kree robots were TL13.
}::>Oddly, their starships were totally dependent on robotics. All
}::>K'Kree ships had robotic engineering crews just ripe for the Virus.
}
}When you look at the design of K'kree starships, and the psych
}profile of most K'kree, it's not so odd. It's fairly easy for
}even a human to get claustrophobic in an area where there's a lot
}of machinery, and space is a consideration. And it certainly
}would make their systems highly susceptible to Virus. Possibly
}more susceptible than the other empires.
I guess I worded that badly. What I meant was that I find it odd
that the 2000 worlds (an otherwise normal TL 15 nation) found itself
totally reliant on TL 13 technology for its spacecraft. That IS odd.
}::>Further, as the 2000 Worlds of the K'Kree empire were farther from
}::>the site of release of the Virus, a greater proportion of the more
}::>advanced breeds of the Virus struck the K'Kree.
}
}Yes, I can easily go along with this. I'd suspect that there was
}comparatively _less_ actual destruction in the 2KW than in any of
}the other empires, because the various strains of Virus have had
}the time to learn how to be more survival-oriented. (Assuming
}that you accept an unwritten premise in your argument. I
}address this later.) The questions that come up here are:
}
}(1) How fast did Virus really spread? [deleted]
}(2) How fast did Virus evolve? [delete]
K'Kree robotics (so we are told in Book 8 and 101 robots) is highly
dependent on the use of "Master -- Slave" type systems. That being
where one robot with a computer brain communicates directly
electronically with brainless robots and in coordination with other
brained robots. This is to keep an electonic 'herd' together, much
as their organic masters follow their herd. I submit that this type
system will be the most vulnerable sort of electronic network that
the Virus would encounter in all of the known Traveller universe.
This should greatly increase the rate of spread of infection.
From my readings of what we have on the Virus, it is sometimes affected
by the software and design of the system it takes over. If the "Master
- -- Slave" type system/design philosophy, was incorporated at all into
the Virus, one would see an increased proportion of cooperation in the
Virus strains in the 2000 worlds. Thus we would see fewer bits of
random destruction, but more coordinated efforts leading to
destruction on a vaster scale as individual vampire robots become
packs, and indivicual vampire ships grow into vast fleets.
}::>The Hivers, when they recovered from their fall, saw their chance.
}::>The K'Kree are now utterly powerless. Immediately, the Hivers
}::>dusted off their old manipulation-invasion plans, and took aim at
}::>the K'Kree culture!
}
}I have a problem with this. The Hivers only created this plan as
}a response to K'kree aggression.
Not really. The Hiver way is more along the lines of "If you don't
like your neighbor, change him until he suits you." They would have
come up with some similar plans even if the K'kree were losing the
war, or even if there was no war at all. The war made the
manipulations imperative for the Hivers, but they would have done
the same thing without it.
}Militarily, the Hive Federation
}was taking a beating; this is why they resorted to the
}psychological warfare of manipulating the K'kree culture. Once
}the K'kree realized that they valued their cultural uniformity
}more than they valued their mission of spreading vegetarianism
}through the cosmos, they backed off. That's why the Hivers never
}actually put their full-scale plan into effect. Even given the
}opportunity, I don't see that the Hivers would necessarily feel a
}need to do anything about the K'kree. This, of course, could
}change down the road.
Well, by my reading, psychological manipulation is never the last
resort of the Hivers. It is the *FIRST*. The Hivers believe in the
"Peaceful coexistance of all races." Thus the K'kree, with their
policies of exterminating other species, are anathema to the Hivers.
Further, the Hivers tend to take the long view of things, being patient
molders of other species (The Ithklur for example). As they are often
looking toward the future, they know that eventually, the K'kree will
indeed rise again from the ashes. They know that the K'kree who do
rise may be just as horrible as their previous ancestors were.
It seems logical, therefore, that the Hivers will take an extreme
interest in how the K'kree develop in the next few generations given
how wide spread they are and the power they are likely to yield in
the future. The Hivers also know the principle of manipulation very
well. A few words spoken in a few ears can have as much impact on a
culture as warship 10 years later. If the Hivers are to manipulate
the K'kree to make such a radical change as becoming a peaceful race,
which is willing to live with others, the changes must be started
as quickly as possible.
The Hivers have manipulated and 'mothered' many different races to
conform with their ideals. They could not effectively do so to the
K'kree as the Centaurs were too powerful militarily. Once that hold
is gone, there is no reason what so ever for the Hivers to treat the
K'kree differently than any other species (excepting the reasons
I've given above). The K'kree would be targetted for manipulation
as surely as the Ithklur were, and just as the Humans of the RC are
being targeted.
}::>Traveller Historians may recall the first Hiver-K'Kree war. The
}::>aggressive and militarily superior K'Kree backed off when the
}::>Hivers unveiled their secret manipulations of a few of their
}::>worlds. Hiver Master Manipulators had socially engineered events
}::>to make a few K'Kree planets turn away from the monolithic backbone
}::>of K'Kree culture. K'Kree were actually using *MEAT* to sauce
}::>their vegitables! K'Kree were going into isolation for
}::>*RECREATION*. These abominations against the K'Kree frightened
}::>them so that they immediately sued for peace when the Hivers
}::>threatened to launch their manipulation across the whole of the
}::>K'Kree 2000 worlds! The K'Kree quietly nuked some of their own
}::>planets to stop the abomination.
}
}Yes. This is what I was referring to above. The Hivers have no
}_need_ to be proactive; they already have the best defense that
}they can against the K'kree.
But they don't need a defence against the K'kree. There is no reason
to defend against the K'kree. The K'kree simply will be converted and
brought into the Hiver fold, just as any other species (Human, Ithklur,
etc.) Standard Operating Procedure for Hivers.
}::>The Hivers have now contacted a few K'Kree worlds and have
}::>manipulated their culture to conform with the ideals of the old
}::>Hiver Confederation. However, you don't turn a species of fanatics
}::>onto tolerence of other life in just a few years. These K'Kree are
}::>the missionaries of the Hivers to the rest of their race. Just as
}::>they have in the Imperium, the Hivers have given the K'Kree the
}::>technology and mission to clean up their entire region of space.
}::>They have formed the KFC: K'Kreer Freedom Coalition.
}
}I told you: you may not make bad puns! :)
Who are you to tell me what I may and may not do?
}::>You thought RCES was bad with their Smash And Grab tactics? The
}::>KFC's forces are happy to wipe out any K'Kree not of their herd who
}::>might stand in their way. You want ground combat "Star Vikings"?
}::>It's much easier to nuke a planet and clean it up with a nuclear
}::>damper than it is to land troops anyway...
}
}Remember that the other "unreconstructed" K'kree will see these
}K'kree as aberrant/perverted. Any fights would likely be to the
}death of every last K'kree on one side or the other, civilians
}and foals not excepted. This is not what I would consider ideal
}territory for "missionary" work. The only way I see this helping
}the Hivers is that it keeps the K'kree busy with their own
}internal battles, thus they are not causing trouble for their
}neighbors. But I don't see the Hivers forming an RC-like
}alliance with any K'kree.
Yes, the KFC will undoubtedly spend a great deal of time fighting
the traditional K'kree. This will buy time for Hiver manipulators
and observers and give the Hivers the time and pressures they need
to change the fabric of K'kree society. And undoubtedly there will
be many such massacres as there were in the scenerio I presented
"Path of Blood" However, I submit that the KFC K'kree would have
some attitude of sympathy for the traditional K'kree, with a sort
of "There, but for the grace of Hivers, go I" air.
Also, it must be noted that even the "traditional" K'kree have the
missionary spirit: Witness all the K'kree client races which have
been converted to vegitarianism. With a bit of a push from the Hiver
manipulation teams, I think they would be willing to convert the
poor "traditional" barbarians, provided it doesn't take any more
effort than it did to make the original "client" races. Conversions
and manipulations would follow the plans laid out by the Hivers.
}::>Why? The other K'Kree are intolerant! They have no regard for the
}::>lives of aliens and other sentient life. Thus, they must be
}::>converted or destroyed.
}
}As above, strike "converted or". K'kree are not likely to
}convert. Especially when the evangelists are perverts.
If the K'kree managed to convert "inferior" (non K'kree) species
like omnivores to vegitarianism, I see no reason why they would
not try to convert their own relatives to "peaceful co-existance".
}::>No, the KFC does not eat meat. (Not usually anyway, as it's not
}::>very good for a K'Kree's digestion) And no, they don't *usually*
}::>enjoy isolation. Psychologically, they are just about the same as
}::>they always were, but they are on a different mission now!
}
}But the mentality that would allow for this kind of mission is
}itself a sign of major perversion! Remember that no K'kree,
}anywhere, has a loyalty to other than the Steppelord of the 2KW,
}through the normal chain of command.
I strongly suggest that you go back and read "Lords of Thunder"
in MegaTraveller Journal #4 by W.H. Kieth. Basically, it involves
the Steppelord a K'kree Empire, an offshoot of the 2000 worlds.
The empire was formed by some True Believer K'kree steppelord who
wanted to exterminate all carnivorous life, and unite
omnivore/vegitarians under K'kree rule. He was unsatisfied with
the current level of effort in that department. The Empire he formed
was never recognized by the 2000 worlds. Obviously, K'kree are indeed
capable of loyalties to someone other than the Steppelord on Kirur.
Especially when they haven't heard from him in about 70 years and he's
probably dead anyway.
}Since all K'kree have this
}loyalty, it is unthinkable to fight against other K'kree unless
}they are diseased (perverts). And since one does not voluntarily
}become a pervert, it is useless to try to convince a pervert to
}drop their perversion. They are therefore not fit to survive,
}and must be destroyed, to prevent the spread of the infection.
The omnivores that the K'kree converted to vegitarianism would fall
into the category of 'perverts'. Yet the K'kree spared the effort
to convert them. I don't think that the KFC will have any different
attitude toward "traditional" K'kree. Some will be converted, some
will be massacred.
IMO, if the Hivers are capable of manipulating a human culture that
has been an aristocracy for thousands of years into a democracy
practially overnight, then the above mentioned changes for K'kree are
not out of bounds.
Scott 2G Kellogg