Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.

A thread of 7 messages, 26 June 1990 to 2 July 1990, in the order they were sent.

#1357 Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.

I was reading the thread about Mercenaries, and some questions struck me.
Being a generally slow and lazy person, I have not managed to write anything
until now, but here it is:

1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This was made up
to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a (hostile?) world because
the employing government lost the war and ceased to exist. It was defined as
'money held in escrew by a third party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that
was supposed to be spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise
(defined beforehand, supposedly).
  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of merc's was
that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two squads one jump,
was far larger than the total salary and bonus of the entire unit! And several
jumps was totally out of the question.
  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that can afford
to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The fact that the money
is't lost weighs light when the country itself might  not be around to make use
of the refunded money. They would probably be better off buying weapons for the
money instead of letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and Norris hire
a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly will require that laws
is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the
balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
  "Oh no, officer, We are just the Dalton brothers, and we're a Merc unit!
Look here: here is our mercenary ticket about OK Corral, and here is our
repatriation bonds."
(Reservations for lack of knowledge about the history of the west :-)

  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about
'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.

  By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)
Likewise would knocking over the Regina Gold Depository, (Because of 'Major
economic damage to the region'). But knocking over a local branch on your
home-planet *would* be ok by this reasoning, and since that usually don't
occur every two weeks on all planets, this line of reasoning is wrong.

  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations is allowed
to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons, foremost that several
MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly. It might lead to some amusing
scenarios, though.
  "Hi! We are the Splutifaxian Air Force and we're robbing this bank!"
  "Splutifax? Never heard of it! When was it founded?"
  "About seven minutes ago!"

  Third possible answer: Only governments and companies and similar
organizations is allowed to hire merc's:
  "Hi! We're from Harry's bar and grill and we're robbing..."
  Ok then, probably not.

  Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!)
or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
or rather:
  If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your
14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.


  For some reason, I'd put my money on Answer #4, How about you, folks?

- -bertil-
- --
"This .signature is hijacked! Fly me to Helsinki!"
"Fly???"
"Ok, I'll settle for e-mail then!"

#1360 Re: (1357) Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.

 In Archive-Message-Number 1357, Bertil Jonell writes:
 >
 >1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
 >  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This
 >was made up to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a
 >(hostile?) world because the employing government lost the war and

     Well, yeah, hostile.  People you've been *shooting at* don't
usually think friendly thoughts about you, especially when you're on
the losing side in a war.

 >ceased to exist. It was defined as 'money held in escrew by a third
 >party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that was supposed to be
 >spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise (defined
 >beforehand, supposedly).

     Usually one system for the entire unit, seeing as how mercenary
tickets are only intended for combat-ready, organized units (individual
mercenaries are responsible to their commander, who in turn deals with
the employer).

 >  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of
 >merc's was that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two
 >squads one jump, was far larger than the total salary and bonus of
 >the entire unit! And several jumps was totally out of the question.
 >  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that
 >can afford to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The
 >fact that the money is't lost weighs light when the country itself
 >might  not be around to make use of the refunded money. They would
 >probably be better off buying weapons for the money instead of
 >letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

     That's the whole point of a repatriation bond.  If you lose (and,
consequently, are unable to pay your mercenaries), the mercenary unit
can still get off-world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
hope) using banked money that you no longer have any use for (since you
no longer exist as an organization).  If you win, then, great.  Reclaim
the bond, use it to pay off your mercenaries, then take what's left and
use it for a much-deserved trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.
You've won the war--now it's Miller time...  ;-)

 >2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
 >  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and
 >Norris hire a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly
 >will require that laws is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to
 >invade it's neighbour on the balcanized planet, the 'Uurk
 >Federation', to capture their resources, they'll probably going to
 >break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this seems
 >to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.

     Since mercenaries are *soldiers*, they are usually hired for the
purpose of warfare (less often for use as cadre or military police/
occupation troops).  The people who hire them are either "true" (de
jure) governments, de facto governments (such as MegaCorps), or
would-be governments (like rebels).  Notice that all these potential
employers are fairly large organizations, usually with easy access to
the kind of wealth that is needed to hire even a modest-sized
mercenary unit.  Remember, decent troops don't come cheap.

 >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
 >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

     Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
robbing a bank, either legally or practically.

 >  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with
 >groundling conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War'
 >that talks about 'Major economic damage to the region' and 'Excessive
 >extraplanetary involvement'.

     Right.  As long as you don't use any nuclear explosives and keep
your invasions *quick* and relatively clean, the Imperium doesn't care.

 >  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations
 >is allowed to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons,
 >foremost that several MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly.

     Since when are MegaCorps *not* governments?  Within their (usually
extensive) on-planet holdings they have the force of a government, and
can still get off world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
in the case where they own an entire planet (or system) then they most
definitely *are* a government.  Anyone who can command the kind of
wealth and power that a MegaCorp represents definitely qualifies for
membership in the Major Players Club.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  [email removed]
[address removed]
PHONE:  [phone removed] (voice)

#1361 Re: Mercs

Bertil Jonell [email removed] writes:

> 2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
> ...
>		   If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the
> balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
> probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
> seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
>   What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
> knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
I suspect the Vranxian invasion is more likely to break the Rules than the
bank job.

>   One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
> conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about
> 'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.
>
>   By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
> out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
> grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)

It's the "excessive" bit that decides it.  For a start, Hickok's crowd are in
violation of Regina's laws on possession of weapons the moment they leave the
starport.  If they resist arrest, to the extent of killing off any police that
try, they may wind up having the local army to deal with.  If they have the
firepower to wipe out the police and army, that's excessive involvement, and
they have the Imperium to deal with.

>   Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!)
> or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
> or rather:
>   If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
> of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your
> 14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.

This is certainly one factor; another is that the Imperium just doesn't have
the resources to police every one of its worlds.  Each planet is responsible
for its own defence and police.  The Imperial forces come in when things get
serious, e.g. Zhodani invasion, TL12 mercs robbing TL4 planets, etc.  The
Imperium officially doesn't like anyone hiring mercs, because it doesn't want
fighting within its borders.  Unofficially, a quick military campaign is
usually preferable to a long economic one, such as sanctions, trade embargoes
etc.  The "Rules of War" have never been written down, and don't "officially"
exist, because if they did they would indicate Imperial approval of internal
wars.  Basically, a mercenary unit has to use common-sense, and so does its
employer.  If their idea of common-sense differs from that of the local
governor, the Imperium intervenes.  "Excessive off-world involvement",
"economic damage" are not precisely defined, mainly so a merc unit can't
say "But Rorke's Raiders did it two months ago on Roup, and you didn't bother
them".  There is one exception.  If anyone uses nuclear weapons, the Imperial
forces squash them.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  [email removed]
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   [email removed]

#1369 Re: Mercenaries

Brent L. Woods writes:
>      That's the whole point of a repatriation bond.  If you lose (and,
> consequently, are unable to pay your mercenaries), the mercenary unit
> can still get off-world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
> hope) using banked money that you no longer have any use for (since you
> no longer exist as an organization).  If you win, then, great.  Reclaim
> the bond, use it to pay off your mercenaries, then take what's left and
> use it for a much-deserved trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.

  Ah, I've got to admit that I didn't think of that possibility. I  guess I was
to focussed on 'You pay them salary, then you pay the repatriation bond' problem
that I forgot that one can use the repatriation money to pay them off!

> Notice that all these potential
> employers are fairly large organizations, usually with easy access to
> the kind of wealth that is needed to hire even a modest-sized
> mercenary unit.  Remember, decent troops don't come cheap.

  A few megacredits can take you quite far. Unless, of course, there is need of
armed, hitech vehicles or the ubiquitous Battledress & FGMP. If you are willing
to settle for Combat Environment Suits, Gaussrifles & RAM Auto-GL's one can
easily hire several hundred people for 1MCr (assuming Cr75,000 per platoon for
2 months. [Yes, this is  George William Herbert's exampla :-)], adding the
equipment wont add more than 25,000, for a total of one platoon per 100kCr)

>  >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
>  >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
>
>      Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
> and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
> robbing a bank, either legally or practically.

  But replace Wild Bill with Naasirka and the bank with a research station owned
by a competitor. It would still be a crime, but suddenly it is transformed into
a 'legitimate' ticket.
(I'm not sure, but I think that a commando raid against a competitor has been
published in the JTAS as a ticket?)

>      Since when are MegaCorps *not* governments?  Within their (usually
> extensive) on-planet holdings they have the force of a government, and
> can still get off world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
> in the case where they own an entire planet (or system) then they most
> definitely *are* a government.

  I was assuming that there existed some kind of 'official' recognition of the
governments that makes up the imperium. Remember that, contray to what the name
would lead one to assume, the Imperium is more reminicent of a defence
pact than of a regular state.
  There is numerous references to the fact that the 'real' territory of the
Imperium is the space between the planets, and even one oblique reference to
that the IISS is charged with deciding which planetary governments that are
'legitimate'
  (Reference: TD adventure number 11 or 12 (?) where a rebel movements first
priority is to make the IISS change the worlds UWP 'government' classification
to 'balcanized', thereby transforming the rebels from being a (probably) illegal
organization to being one of two governments on that world, thus giving is some
sort of legitimay in the eyes of the Imperium.)

Adrian Hurt writes:
> As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
> their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
> I suspect the Vranxian invasion is more likely to break the Rules than the
> bank job.

  My question then is: Why does not every criminal organize their jobs as
tickets, and take advantage of the *repatriation bonds*? Since defeated mercs
are allowed free passage off planet, one would assume that captured criminals
would jump on that opportunity!


  If we look at it from the individual mercs point of view, (s)he is bound to
be quite interested in if the repatriation bond is going to be honored, or if
some Imperial official is going to smash them with a law-book and say:
  "Sorry, but this exceeds the limits for a ticket and enters the criminal area,
Off to Exile/Usani you go!"

  (BTW, In my campaign there is a civil war on a certain planet where bonds
are *not* honored. And since the guerilla is claimed to be Zho-supported, this
has led to that Marines have been forced to do Counter Insugency assignments
there. Quite an unpopular assignment, I assure you...)

- -bertil-

PS, Anyone out there who knows a sure method of transforming ClarisCAD documents
from a mac into generic postscrips files? Yes, it has Traveller connection.
- --
.sig out on lunch

#1373 Re: (1369) Re: Mercenaries

 In Archive-Message-Number 1369, Bertil Jonell writes:
 >
 >Brent L. Woods writes:
 >> If you win, then, great.  Reclaim the bond, use it to pay off your
 >> mercenaries, then take what's left and use it for a much-deserved
 >> trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.
 >
 >  Ah, I've got to admit that I didn't think of that possibility. I
 >guess I was to focussed on 'You pay them salary, then you pay the
 >repatriation bond' problem that I forgot that one can use the
 >repatriation money to pay them off!

     Sure.  That's how bonds work.  If you don't forfeit the bond (in
this case, lose the war), you don't lose the money; you get it back.  If
you win, then you pay your troops their accumulated pay and bonuses, and
transport off-world is *their* problem.  The larger and better-
established units will usually have their own transport (remember the
_Broadsword_ class mercenary cruiser?), so they'll just load up their
equipment and go on to their next ticket.

 >> Notice that all these potential employers are fairly large
 >> organizations, usually with easy access to the kind of wealth that
 >> is needed to hire even a modest-sized mercenary unit.  Remember,
 >> decent troops don't come cheap.
 >
 >  A few megacredits can take you quite far. Unless, of course, there
 >is need of armed, hitech vehicles or the ubiquitous Battledress &
 >FGMP. If you are willing to settle for Combat Environment Suits,
 >Gaussrifles & RAM Auto-GL's one can easily hire several hundred
 >people for 1MCr (assuming Cr75,000 per platoon for 2 months. [Yes,
 >this is  George William Herbert's exampla :-)], adding the equipment
 >wont add more than 25,000, for a total of one platoon per 100kCr)

     Um.  I'm not so sure about that.  How long are you planning on
keeping your fighting force in the field?  If it's any reasonably long
length of time, then payroll costs are going to mount up (not to mention
death benefits for KIAs and medical support costs for ordinary
casualties).  How about ammunition?  You usually have to pick up the
tab for that.  Replacement of combat-lossed equipment?

     Remember, things *always* end up costing more than you planned,
since warefare isn't amenable to prediction.  Was is von Clausewitz
who said "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy?"

 >>  >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
 >>  >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
 >>
 >>      Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
 >> and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
 >> robbing a bank, either legally or practically.
 >
 >  But replace Wild Bill with Naasirka and the bank with a research
 >station owned by a competitor. It would still be a crime, but suddenly
 >it is transformed into a 'legitimate' ticket.

     Um.  I have two comments on that.  First, Naasirka can buy any
number of judges they want (not to mention lawyers--remember, whoever
has the most lawyers wins).  I strongly suspect that "Wild Bill doesn't
have that option.

     Second, I'd bet long odds that any decent mercenary would be too
proud to accept a ticket that requires him to become a common criminal.

     A strike raid against a research station as part of a combat unit
is one thing.  Robbing a bank is something else again.  I think that
it's reasonable for the average mercenary to not have to fight civil
police.

 >(I'm not sure, but I think that a commando raid against a competitor
 >has been published in the JTAS as a ticket?)

     I don't know for sure.  My collection of the Journal goes back to
issue 9, and is complete to the present.  I just checked 9 through 24
(my issues of _Challenge_ are still packed--I just moved) and didn't
find any mercenary tickets.  Could be, though.

 >  I was assuming that there existed some kind of 'official'
 >recognition of the governments that makes up the imperium.

     I doubt that it matters.  If you have the actual power, official
recognition doesn't make that much difference.

 >  My question then is: Why does not every criminal organize their jobs
 >as tickets, and take advantage of the *repatriation bonds*? Since
 >defeated mercs are allowed free passage off planet, one would assume
 >that captured criminals would jump on that opportunity!

     If the government with the power *isn't* your employer, and you
just did something to annoy them that wasn't part of legitimate warfare,
they probably won't let you off the planet.  You're going to prison
anyway, so trying to fake up some some bogus "ticket" won't help you.

 >  If we look at it from the individual mercs point of view, (s)he is
 >bound to be quite interested in if the repatriation bond is going to
 >be honored, or if some Imperial official is going to smash them with
 >a law-book and say:

     I doubt that the Imperium would be involved.  More probably some
local authority.  The Imperium has enough problems without meddling in
some local criminal justice system.

 >  (BTW, In my campaign there is a civil war on a certain planet where
 >bonds are *not* honored.

     Really?  And there are actually mercenaries stupid enough to fight
there?  I'm amazed.  I certainly wouldn't.  Heck, I'd sooner hang up
my webgear and get a job at McDonalds (I don't care if it *is* 3000
years in the future--some things will *never* go away).  :-)

 >PS, Anyone out there who knows a sure method of transforming ClarisCAD
 >documents from a mac into generic postscrips files?

     Try using chooser to select a laserprinter driver and then print
to a file.  That should do it.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  [email removed]
[address removed]
PHONE:  [phone removed] (voice)

#1383 Re: Mercs

Bertil Jonell [email removed] writes:

> Adrian Hurt writes:
> > As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
> > their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
>
>   My question then is: Why does not every criminal organize their jobs as
> tickets, and take advantage of the *repatriation bonds*? Since defeated mercs
> are allowed free passage off planet, one would assume that captured criminals
> would jump on that opportunity!

First, the criminals would have to find someone to hire them and supply the
ticket.  Second, there is no such thing as a "legitimate" ticket - officially,
the Imperium does not allow warfare within its borders.  In practise, the
Imperium can't prevent it, and will turn a blind eye as long as things don't
get out of hand.  But if the Imperium does intervene, a repatriation bond
won't help the mercs - if it's Imperium vs repatriation bond, the Imperium
wins.

Also, remember what a repatriation bond is - a sum of money, held by some
responsible party (e.g. megacorporation, large bank, etc.) to provide the
mercs with a way out if they get stranded.  The employer must find a
reponsible party who will handle the bond, and that party is going to want
to examine the ticket.  Banks are hardly likely to support a bunch of
commandos on a bank-robbing job (unless, of course, it's a rival bank :-)
and neither banks or megacorps are likely to take an interest in a small
outfit like Hickok's 4 commandos.  They also won't want to antagonise the
Imperium, or the governments of worlds they may want to do business with.
Remember, _responsible_ party - they don't get that reputation by dealing
with any bunch of criminals.

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  [email removed]
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   [email removed]

#1378 RE: Mercenaries

Operating System: uts 5.2.6b 5
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: [phone removed]
Comment: Are we having fun yet?
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL16]

|*     Second, I'd bet long odds that any decent mercenary would be too
|* proud to accept a ticket that requires him to become a common
|* criminal.

{ Character mode on:

	From Ian Bucan, Founder and CEO of Armageddon Industries:

	Rob a bank?!?!!  @#@#!$%%#$   Get yer bleedin' arse outta my
	office!   If I EVER catch ya' aroun' here agin I'll cut your
	appendages off PERSONALLY and feed 'em to ya'!   We run a
	respectable business here and won't put up with the likes of
	criminals like you!

	Now... GET THE HELL OUT!

}

There we have it, an opinion (DM -2, die roll 5 on reaction) on
mercenaries engaging in bank robberies...

Ian is one of my alter egos, (now as an NPC) and is an ethnic Scot
through and through.   With a long family tradition of being
involved in "soldier for hire" situations that he is proud of.
Ain't no way he'd get involved in a bank robbery.

Probably, if he found out about a group that was robbing banks and
calling themselves mercenaries, he'd make the victim banks an
offer for his services at unbelievably low prices... damn near
free.



- --
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|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 [phone removed]       |
|INTERNET: [email removed]    |  UUCP: {[email removed]|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: [phone removed]         |                                        |
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