TDR reviewers, drives, etc

A thread of 2 messages, 27 November 1990 to 29 November 1990, in the order they were sent.

#1866 TDR reviewers, drives, etc

RE: TDR rules categories & help

While I don't think I can add much in the way of writing concrete rules, I'd be
happy to review rules submissions, and in general bounce ideas around.
Is there a TDR category for that, or are such a dime a dozen? :-)  I'm not up
on the lastest Traveller, but have good experience with 'classic' Traveller,
and designing homebrew rules systems.

RE: Survey list

You know, this is the first time that I've ever seen anything resembling a list
of who's who in the TML.  Don'cha think it would be nice to know a bit about
who's who?  who knows, maybe there are some Traveller types near me???

RE: TDR rules categories

Should we have rules dealing with world's TL as mentioned in the TCS question?
What's the chances of varying TL pieces of equipment actually working together?
In one of the Star Wars books, the Falcon's control system gets shot up, so Han
Solo cobbles together a 'fluidics' control system;  I thought it was laughable!

RE: TDR drives

In general, Traveller ships seem to have two or three types of drives: jump
drives, and maneuver drives, and perhaps gravitic drives.  The Jump drive is
used for interstellar travel, the maneuver drives are used for interplanetary
travel, and the gravitics drives are used to land the ship without damaging the
real estate.

I don't like having to have three drives, but they seem to be necessary.
Assuming that the maneuver drive is a reaction drive, you need some other sort
of drive to land without destroying the place.  Are there other ways to land
ships?  Are there reaction drives that are not destructive?  Some scenarios
have space ports have gravitic landing platforms, and scorched earth wilderness
landings.  I kind of like that.

If you have a gravitic landing drive, perhaps it's combined with the shipboard
gravity equipment, so that it's essentially free?  In any case, I'd like to be
able to design ships without gravity equipment.

I definitely don't like the idea of the maneuver drives being (anti)gravity
drives.  In my mind an antigravity drive has to have a nearby mass to work
against, and I question if antigrav vehicles should work further in space then
low orbit.  I'm sure there are ways to explain it away, such that the gravity
drive generates a gravity field, and the ship falls toward it, but for some
reason it goes against my grain.  It seems like pulling a rabbit out of a hat!
Does anyone else have such misgivings?

I like the idea of maneuver drives being reaction drives.  Traditionally
spacecraft have always had some kind of jets or exhaust, even the highest TL,
and I don't want to change that.  However, it seems that the physics doesn't
work, if I'm following the TML discussion correctly.

There are other possibilities for maneuver drives other then a reaction drive
or a 'rabbit out of a hat' drive, and I hope we can decide on one that fits for
TDR maneuver drives...

Discussion?

RE: TDR unified design rules

It's the only way to go!

RE: Combat systems

I like the idea of being able to figure out where a character has been hit, and
take that in account for damage, but such rules ***must*** be simple and
PLAYABLE!

RE: vehicle movement

I hope that TDR will use the MAYDAY vector movement rules, instead of the
'zones' gimmick use somewhere in Traveller...

Jim Baranski

#1883 Re: TDR reviewers, drives, etc.

Vote For NoneOfTheAbove Write In Candidate 27-Nov-1990 1032 [email removed] writes:
> RE: TDR rules categories
>
> What's the chances of varying TL pieces of equipment actually working together?
> In one of the Star Wars books, the Falcon's control system gets shot up, so Han
> Solo cobbles together a 'fluidics' control system;  I thought it was laughable!
This depends on what the equipment is.  I can imagine using TL3 sails to propel
a TL9 water ship in an emergency (a lot of them, though!) but I have trouble
using pieces from one TL 7 computer in another TL 7 computer.  Making a TL 8
computer talk to a TL 7 printer is feasible, as long as the TL 8 computer is
not an IBM PC - making that talk to anything is a serious problem!

> RE: TDR drives
>
> In general, Traveller ships seem to have two or three types of drives: jump
> drives, and maneuver drives, and perhaps gravitic drives.  The Jump drive is
> used for interstellar travel, the maneuver drives are used for interplanetary
> travel, and the gravitics drives are used to land the ship without damaging
> the real estate.

Nice summary, and I agree with every word.

>						Are there other ways to land
> ships?  Are there reaction drives that are not destructive?  Some scenarios
> have space ports have gravitic landing platforms, and scorched earth
> wilderness landings.  I kind of like that.

Reaction drives are bound to be destructive.  It's all down to Newton's 3rd
law.  Without doing sums, force pushing ship up = force pushing ground down.
If mass of ship = huge, force pushing ship up = lots, so force pushing ground
down = lots, so being under the ship isn't a good idea.  Gravitic landing
platforms - you mean a big repulsor that lets the ship down gently without
the ship doing anything?  Nice idea, and I expect the ship gets charged some
CR for it.

> If you have a gravitic landing drive, perhaps it's combined with the shipboard
> gravity equipment, so that it's essentially free?  In any case, I'd like to be
> able to design ships without gravity equipment.

And at TL <8, you have to.  Which is why the Shuttle has a big, hard launch
pad.

> I definitely don't like the idea of the maneuver drives being (anti)gravity
> drives.  In my mind an antigravity drive has to have a nearby mass to work
> against, and I question if antigrav vehicles should work further in space then
> low orbit.  I'm sure there are ways to explain it away, such that the gravity
> drive generates a gravity field, and the ship falls toward it, but for some
> reason it goes against my grain.

This was discussed on rec.arts.sf-lovers some time ago.  It's about as likely
as making the ship out of iron and fixing a big magnet to its nose.  Either
it has a reaction (the gravity well pulls the ship towards it, and the
generator pushes the ship the other way) or it doesn't, it's a reactionless
drive, and I'm tempted to post my proof that reactionless drives can't work.

> I like the idea of maneuver drives being reaction drives.  Traditionally
> spacecraft have always had some kind of jets or exhaust, even the highest TL,
> and I don't want to change that.  However, it seems that the physics doesn't
> work, if I'm following the TML discussion correctly.

The sums don't work.  The physics do, or the Space Shuttle wouldn't get off
the ground.

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