Ship's Computers

A thread of 5 messages, 4 May 1989 to 8 May 1989, in the order they were sent.

#350 Re: Ship's computers

> >  By the way, to the person who mentioned you "pocket computer," I believe that
> > the model 1 is at or near mainframe levels of capability, pushing into the
> > supercomputer regions.

Why do you need a supercomputer in your pocket?  Why isn't the pocket
computer just another "cell" of a larger computer that uses many cells
working in parallel in a cooperative network?  Why do Traveller computers
resemble 1970's mainframes running MVS?  By the way, I beleive that 'bis'
is a signifier from IBM mainframes (from the '70s) that means "enhanced".

> Now for my next gripe. "Fib" means "fibre-optic back-up", and is supposed to
> protect the computer against radiation damage. Firstly, a half-decent EMP would
> fry the chips, regardless of whether or not fibre-optics were being used.

If the chips were completely enclosed in a conductive, grounded shield, the
EMP could not reach them.  With fibre-optic cables entering the shield, the
chips inside would be relatively safe.


> Secondly, nowadays fibre-optics are starting to be used in the main circuits,
> never mind back-ups, and for speed reasons as well as protection.

Exactly.  Any computer system found in the higher tech levels of Traveller
would probably not be made of silicon.  Making the entire computer out of
fibre-optic technology or something unknown right now is not that
far-fetched.  This is why computers in Traveller irk me so much.  Not much
imagination went into extrapolating current computer technology into the
future.

								-matt

- --
Matt Burdick			| Hewlett-Packard
[email removed]           	| Technical Communications Lab

#346 Ship's Computers

Brett Slocum writes:

    ...computers used to operate starships would be much different than
    those portrayed in Traveller.

The Traveller treatment of computers is useless, in my opinion.
I see three options:

    1. Treat computers as so effective, pervasive, and necessary that they
    are ignored for game purposes.  Computer skill is a la Neuromancer,
    requiring equipment, time, and colossally expensive and restricted
    software that comes in a tiny memory pack.  If a ship's computer goes
    out, the ship is totally helpless in combat (since the other ship will
    evade all attacks and bypass all defenses).

    2. Treat computers as the beasts of space opera.  Huge vacuum-tube
    affairs that take up lots of space and are incredibly ineffective.
    Traveller rules as written will do fine for this option.

    3. Work within a Dune-like campaign background, where devices to
    perform computations are strictly forbidden upon pain of atomic death,
    and all calculation is done by highly trained individuals.  Computer
    skill vanishes entirely, but characters may choose to be Mentats:
    No promotion, survive 6+, skills as Other plus Mentat-1 each term.

Charles Martin // INTERNET: [email removed] // BITNET: [email removed]
UUCP: {cmcl2,harvard,decvax}!yale!martin

#352 Ship's computers

> Why do you need a supercomputer in your pocket?  Why isn't the pocket
> computer just another "cell" of a larger computer that uses many cells
> working in parallel in a cooperative network?  Why do Traveller computers
> resemble 1970's mainframes running MVS?  By the way, I beleive that 'bis'
> is a signifier from IBM mainframes (from the '70s) that means "enhanced".

There was a WWII Italian fighter, the Fiat G50, which had a "bis" variant.
"Bis" was around long before computers.

As for pocket supercomputers, wait till someone puts a small LCD display and
keyboard onto a transputer board! 1MB in your pocket - you can keep your 1 ton
Model 1 bis!

Seriously though, if that sort of computing power becomes available and cheap,
big machines may become obsolete. Who needs a room full of computer when you
can do all your work on your lap-top, then send it via a modem by telephone,
radio, laser or meson communicator to whoever you want. To reverse the emphasis
above, "larger" computers may become nothing more than a lot of portable
machines networked together. Or, as I said in an earlier article, suppose
someone on the ship has a pocket model 1. The ship's main computer gets blown
away by a critical hit. So the pocket model gets linked to the ship's systems,
and the ship can at least jump again.

> If the chips were completely enclosed in a conductive, grounded shield, the
> EMP could not reach them.  With fibre-optic cables entering the shield, the
> chips inside would be relatively safe.

Are you sure? If so, why is EMP a problem? Most machines have earthed, metal
shells, mainly to prevent them from causing radio interference.

Back to the real world. My statement about pocket computers having 32K has
just gone out of date. There's a new one out with 64K. We're getting there!

 "Keyboard? How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  [email removed]
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   [email removed]

#353 Re: Ship's computers

>> If the chips were completely enclosed in a conductive, grounded shield, the
>> EMP could not reach them.  With fibre-optic cables entering the shield, the
>> chips inside would be relatively safe.
>
> Are you sure? If so, why is EMP a problem? Most machines have earthed, metal
> shells, mainly to prevent them from causing radio interference.

That's what the fiber-optic cables are for -- most EMP is carried into
equipment by the wires, which act like antennas.  (BTW, a friend just asked
me about "fiber optic power cables".  A good question...)  For best
protective effect, the metal enclosure should also be spherical -- such a
structure is known as a "Faraday Cage", after EMP pioneer and discoverer of
the solenoid Michael Faraday.  Note that a Faraday Cage doesn't depend on
being "grounded" -- just on the fact that the electrostatic force is an
inverse-square law (in normal space-time, my friend comments.  Relativistic
speeds and jumpspace are an interesting question...)  (Another good question
- -- what does "ground" or "earth" mean in this context, anyway? -- It seems
to me that with the EMP-generating device and its target insulated nearly
perfectly from each other and the rest of the universe, the electromagnetics
get pretty complicated -- particularly since there are probably also a bunch
of charged particles flying around...)

Sigh.  Looks to me like it's time to pitch the "fiber-optic" explanation, and
just describe these computers as "hardened" (in the military sense).
Otherwise, the physics gets too hairy to be fun anymore.  Note as well that
one would expect that there are better ways than EMP to selectively attack
complicated computing machines this far in the future anyway...

					Bart Massey
					..[email removed]
					..[email removed]

#354 Re: Ship's computers

>From: Bart Massey [email removed]
>> If the chips were completely enclosed in a conductive, grounded shield, the
>> EMP could not reach them.  With fibre-optic cables entering the shield, the
>> chips inside would be relatively safe.
>
> Are you sure? If so, why is EMP a problem? Most machines have earthed, metal
> shells, mainly to prevent them from causing radio interference.

>That's what the fiber-optic cables are for -- most EMP is carried into
>equipment by the wires, which act like antennas.  (BTW, a friend just asked

[stuff deleted]

>Bart Massey
>..[email removed]
>..[email removed]

Please don't flame me B-) (I was a music major in college, the closest thing
that I got to physics, was Acoustics of Music (Acoustical Physics only)) but
do we have to have a rationale for everything, or could you just say it is
that way because the "rules" say so? I know I am naive, so flame away.

Greg

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