In Archive-Message-Number 7578, David Johnson
[email removed] writes:
> I'm going to get to Mark Cook's arguments for the separate list in a moment.
> (Nothing personal Mark, you're just a handy proponent.)
Not a problem. I'm slipping on my Nomex union suit. :^)
> That said, Mark Cook [email removed] writes:
>
> > Join both groups. If the hassle is too much, maybe your enthusiasm isn't
> > enough.
>
> One might suggest the same about `oldtimers' who find it too much hassle to
> put up with the `noise' of TNE postings.
Granted, but the 'two group' idea would solve the problem for both
groups. Those that don't like TNE can avoid it easily, and those
that like all the Traveller variations can mail to and read both lists.
> I'm not sure I buy this. If all these folks were still contributing there
> wouldn't be such a `low signal-to-noise' ratio.
The ratio would be better, but the noise wouldn't be any less. To me
(and, I suspect, many others), getting 1000 lines of useful material
out of 2000 lines of signal is not much better than getting 200 lines
of useful material out of 1200 lines of signal.
> > It a separate group, it ceases to be a problem for us, and those of you
> > that enjoy TNE (and creamed spinich and enemas and so on...) can stay
> > right here and do exactly what you've been doing all along.
> >
> > > Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.
> >
> > Seems like a pretty selfish one to me. You'd rather keep us around, even
> > when we don't want to be here, rather than lose part of your audience?
>
> Hmmm. There seems to be plenty `selfishness' to go around here.
OK, point taken. I was out of line with that crack and I apologize.
> Look,
> I'm just as pissed as anyone at what GDW has done to Traveller and I don't
> appreciate these `newbies' bitching about my `whining' all the time either
> but that doesn't mean I want to pick up my toys and go play by myself.
The problem is, Dave, that a lot of folks have alreayd picked up their
toys and left. This might (no guarantees) get some of them back. I say
this not because I just want the increased volume, but because many of
them were outstanding contributors.
> > This may cause many folks that dropped out to come back. The flip side
> > is many are leaving anyway, they just don't have anywhere else to go.
>
> I doubt it, but I'd like to offer a challenge to allow you to prove me wrong.
Sigh. I wish it were that easy. I'd love to prove you wrong, in the
fashion you offer, just to get the old timers back. Unfortunately, if
any sort of pre-TNE incentive is offered, I suspect that what we're
more likely to see is a gradual return of some of the more interested
folks. There are many that are still members of the TML today, but
just don't speak up out of lack of interest in the TNE. If I weren't
so mouthy, you wouldn't ever hear from me. :^) Scott Kellogg doesn't
post nearly as often as he used to before TNE (although his posts are
every bit as worthwhile and valuable as they used to be.) Surprisingly
enough, this very subject (the TML/TNE split) has brought a couple
of old-timers out of the shadows, if ever so briefly, to wit:
Paul Dale [email removed] writes:
> I tend to agree with Mark. I'd prefer a second list dealing
> with non TNE stuff. Even though I don't dislike TNE too much, the volume
> has been a little intense recently.
>
> Guess this means I vote for the split.
...and Gerry Williams [email removed] writes:
> As far as I see, the only issue is if enough people are
> interested in an "old traveller" mailing list, especially
> those that have already left because of TNE. People who
> want it all can just subscribe to both.
>
> The only inconvenience this should cause is if a great
> deal of cross-posting occurs, although given that the
> past high-volume contributors have largely been quiet or
> left the list, this seems unlikely.
>
> Other than discussing valid impediments to splitting the
> list, let's not argue about it or take sides.
>
> P.S. I would be interested in joining the new list.
For those folks that remember, we've lost the priceless wisdom
of Metlay, the wonderful ship designs of Rob Dean, and many
others. I never see posts from Bertil Jonell any more, and
I can't recall the last time Adrian Hurt stomped me into a
tortilla, arguing weapon designs. Too many of the old, rich
voices are silent, and I for one, would almost anything to
get them back.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
mark f. cook * mark cook consulting * shoestring graphics & printing
2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * [email removed]
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
- Yiddish proverb