A Discussion from GEnie

By Robert S. Dean ·

TML message #2810From bundle 230

I'm sending the following without commenting to the final essay appended due
to lack of time today.

Have fun!

Rob Dean

You can lead a Horde to water, but you can't make it drink....

- ------------------------------


The following discussion of Agility is from GEnie:

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Topic 8  Sub: Traveller Q&A
Get the official answers to your questions. Answered by the writ-
ers/Designers of MegaTraveller.
 ************
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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 331       Sat Aug 17, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 20:24 EDT

OK.  Stupid questions department, and I would appreciate  knowing
whether any answers are official.  I've had this discussion  with
various people on  the Internet Traveller Mailing List.

How do I calculate agility?  If I have a ship with a 100MW  power
plant, a drive that uses 60MW, 5MW of parasitic power  (controls,
etc.)  and  30MW of life support, with no weapons (just  to  keep
discussion simple) how much power do I use in the agility  calcu-
lation?

Preferred  answers on the TML are 5MW (what's left  after  every-
thing else is powered), 65MW (what's left after everything except
the  maneuver drive is powered), and 60MW (the maximum  input  to
the drive, regardless of any 5MW of left over power).

MY opinion is 60...but I could be wrong.

Rob Dean
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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 332       Sun Aug 18, 1991
C.BUSH3 [Clay]               at 01:55 EDT

   5 MW. (Short and simple answer.)
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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 333       Sun Aug 18, 1991
S.OLSON4                     at 14:34
EDT

Clay's right, 5 is the amount you use for calculating agility.

Scott
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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 336       Wed Aug 21, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 18:34
EDT

My  cohort in crime on the Internet TML, Scott  Kellogg,  pleaded
with  me to repost this fairly long message that we  concocted  a
few  weeks ago on the subject of spaceship agility.  Please  bear
with me...we were a little surprised at the short '5MW of course-
'answer  uptopic,  so figured that it would best for you  to  see
where we were coming from.

Hope this uploads OK....

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1991 14:22 CDT
From: [email removed]
Subject: (2729) Revised Agility
Calculation Formula

<Text of TML Message 2729 deleted>

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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 337       Wed Aug 21, 1991
S.OLSON4                     at 20:21 EDT

 Rob,

    Hmmmmm....   I had a rather long and heated  discussion/argu-
ment  with Joe about this type of a topic a couple years ago.   I
was  holding  that Agility should be limited by manuever,  but  I
lost  (temporarily, anyway).  The major difference  between  High
Guard  and MT is that Agility and Manuever are no longer  related
AT ALL.  Your ability to manuever doesn't affect your agility, or
vice versa.  The old disengagement rules made no sense when  they
were  written, let alone now: you disengage by running away  from
the  enemy,  not  by turning tight circles.   If  you're  turning
faster than I am, but I'm faster, you can only get away IF I lose
contact with you.

    Now, if you WANT to chop your manuever capability to increase
your agility, that's fine, but excess power means what's said  in
the  last sentence: "Excess power is the powerleft over from  the
power  plant  after  all the crafts other  components  have  been
powered."  Looks clear enough to me.

    Where did you get that "when the ship is in emergency status,
the ship suddenly goes to agility=2"?  I can't find anything that
suggests that result.

    "Double-Dipping" makes sense and would be legal as I read the
rules:  nothing  prevents you from parceling  out  the  available
power  in whatever manner you see fit, AS LONG AS YOU  DON'T  USE
THE SAME MW IN TWO PLACES AT ONCE. After all, that's like getting
something for nothing.....

              Scott

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Category 11,  Topic 8
Message 338       Wed Aug 21, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean]          at 21:06  EDT

 Where  I  come  from (-8, when it says "after  all  the  craft's
_other_"  components have been powered", I have to  wonder--Other
than what?  Given that on p.94 right column of my printing of the
Ref's Manual the Emergency Agility rule says that I can cut power
to  my  weapons and gain an agility equal to  my  manuever  drive
rating, I was left with the impression that agility had something
to do with maneuver. (-8

As  someone who cut my teeth on vector movement  in  Triplanetary
(in  1976), I _know_ that a rotating ship is a ballistic, not  an
evading, target, so I reject the current 'explanation' for agili-
ty  the same way I reject the maneuver rule that says that I  can
move any number of hexes up to my current speed or circle in  the
same  hex.  Give me a break... we have to accept a  few  'Physics
Nullifiers' (tm) to play this game, but not that one. Anyway,  by
the rules I have, what Scott says is true.  If I have a  merchant
ship  with no weapons, I can  declare an emergency agility  equal
to my maneuver rating, which has nothing to do with breaking  off
under the current hex grid combat rules.

I  have no strong objection to going off in my own little  corner
and  playing the way I like, but I hate to see things  like  this
crop  up  in what is supposed to be a (generally)  reality  based
game.

Rob Dean
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The following is an email message from GEnie:

Item    8057512                 91/08/22        03:26
From:   B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
To:     R.DEAN14                        Robert S. Dean

cc:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich

Sub: Agility in MT

    THE FOLLOWING IS AN ARTICLE FROM SS&V #1:

                       AGILITY
                   By Bryan Borich
                   With thanks to
                     Mike Mikesh

    [This discussion took place prior to the development of SoPM1
and therefore, there might be some conflict with the presumptions
made  here that haven't been fully analyzed in relation  to  that
book, though some updating has been attempted].

    When  Megatraveller  came  out, a change in  the  ship  rules
occurred  concerning  maneuver  drives and  the  ship's  agility.
Previous  to MT, these two abilities tended to  intertwine  (i.e.
there  was  a  strong relationship between a  ship's  ability  to
maneuver  and it's ability to dodge, reflected by it's  agility).
In MT ship design this connectivity between the two now no longer
occurs,  a  ship's agility has no relationship to  it's  maneuver
drive.

    This  alteration tended to cause some initial  concern  among
designer's  since reasoning tended to reside with the  idea  that
agility and ability to maneuver should be intertwined.

    A  way around this problem was given by considering  the  way
maneuver drives worked and how agility works and then considering
inertial compensators as a possible solution.

    According to SoPM1 inertial compensators are directed by  the
main  computer  in response to normal ship  inertia  from  moving
about  and maneuvering.  Inertial compensators that are  involved
in this process are initially available at TL 10.

    When one looks at the effect of maneuver drives installed  on
a  vessel one notices that the mass of the ship has no effect  on
the  drives  ability to propel the vessel, this is of  course  an
advantage  of using either gravitic or thruster technology.   Now
taking a look at the design of a ship's agility, the ship's  mass
plays an important role here, therefore the heavier the ship  the
less agility it tended to display (can't go below zero though).

    Taking  these things into account a theory occured  that  as-
sumed  that  a more primitive form of  inertial  compensators  is
built  into  the ships as part of the maneuver  drives  and  hull
structural  members.  These inertial compensators are  simple  in
design  and are available at TL9 (in actuality the major  differ-
ence between the TL9 and TL10 compensators is the computer  elec-
tronics and the fine tuning necessary, requiring that environmen-
tal  compensators  be built through the entire ship where  it  is
needed to protect the crew and cargo).

    These  structural  compensators  have a  limited  ability  to
negate the
mass  of a vessel while trying to use agility however because  of
insufficient power levels for the basic unit.  By increasing  the
power  however, added ability to move in different directions  is
added,  thus increasing the vessel's "agility".  This does  cause
more  stress to the vessels structure however and makes  it  more
difficult for the Environmental compensators to dampen the maneu-
vers involved.

    Inertial compensators still have a limit as to their  ability
to  negate mass, and when this is exceeded (which does not  occur
under  normal speed and mass considerations that occur with  cur-
rent ship design, this is also why maneuver 6 cannot be exceeded,
as  at  that point you would need to  continually  overdrive  the
structural  inertial  compensators and thus burn them  out),  one
needs  to  apply  more power, therefore you still  run  into  the
lightspeed problem (needing infinite energy to move the  infinite
mass essentially).

    In  an  actual emergency situation, a vessel  could  jury-rig
controls  bypassing the normal energy conduits and feeding  extra
power into the compensators (always presuming the ship had enough
power that could be diverted from other uses).

    To jury-rig a bypass,
    Difficult, 10 minutes, Engineering, Education, Hazardous

    Bypassing  involves  the transfer of power  from  one  source
(such  as a weapons system, life support system,  staterooms,  or
similar system) to another.

(C)  Bryan Borich 1990

    (Excuse  the  poor  quality of the writing,  I  was  probably
rushing  and trying to do to many things at the same time when  I
threw it together)

    Feel  free  to  post the above to the TML,  and  include  the
disclaimer.

=END=