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Topic 3 Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions
This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 409 Mon Nov 18, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar] at 23:51 EST
SUBJECTS:
-THE revision; Good, Bad and Conclusions
-revisions in general
Before I get any further, I admit to not owning any of the Twilight system
games. I have played both Twilight and 2300AD several times however, and I
have a "Christmas Morning" attitude toward nearly anything which appears in my
local game store, so I have perused Dark Conspiracy. I expect to buy one of
these games in the near future, in order to be more informed about the
revision.
Good points about the revision:
-Could attract many new players.
-Taking Dark Conspiracy and Twilight: 2000 as models, we can expect to have
pictures of all the weapons and major equipment.
-With GDW doing the revision, we should see more enthusiastic support for
Traveller (from GDW).
-The playing-card-based NPC Personality system will become a part of
Traveller.
-The "re-generification" of Traveller could allow for the inclusion of non-
Traveller technologies. A section (echoed from GURPS Space) could detail the
different ways of dealing with star travel, both STL (Grav Drive, Thrusters,
LightSails, Ramships, and Generation Rockets) and FTL (Warp, Jump, Gates,
Wormholes, Stutterwarp, Infinite Improbability Drive, etc.). Vector-thrust
(ala 2300AD) can be used as an alternative to Gravitics (in some cases), and
the "One Small Step" article can be made an official part of the game.
-As mentioned in the previous item, previously published articles can be
incorporated into the rules at the start (assuming they are close enough
system-wise). "One Small Step" and Wet Navy come to mind immediately, as does
an article about prototype-TL weapons in an issue of Space Gamer (one of the
last SJGames issues).
Bad points about the revision:
-No more Marc Miller.
-Traveller has (at least temporarily) lost Rob Caswell as its technical
illustrator (this is not _directly_ tied to the revision, but is related, and
IS bad news).
-Could cause the loss of many current Traveller players.
-According to some research done by a TML member (I forget who), the
existing Traveller skill system is actually more realistic in some respects
than the Twilight skill system.
-A system revision is like a U.S. Constitutional Convention. Once started,
nothing that has gone before can be taken for granted. If the ENTIRE system
is redone, all craft designs and sector listings could become obsolete, as the
rules for their creation change.
-The oldest surviving SYSTEM in role-playing will have died. Traveller pre-
dates the AD&D Players Handbook by a year (I don't count the Monster Manual;
it was only a badly timed supplement), and no other game from that era
survives in anything like its original form (if it survives at all).
-HIWG will be stripped of about half of its chances for publication (of
background, primarily). Those who write scenarios will be largely uneffected
once they switch systems.
Conclusions about the Revision:
With the above points in mind, there are obviously some sections of the
rules than should not be changed. Sections like world building and craft
design should produce results identical to the MegaTraveller rules. How they
REACH those results might be worked on (the Shipbuilder's project being an
example), but too much change in the final product will totally invalidate
many years of work by GDW, DGP, HIWG, and hundreds of Traveller referees.
One approach to simplify things (at first), would be to provide some 20 to
30 craft (with MT-style descriptions) in whatever will pass for the Basic Set.
This gives beginners a collection to start with, without sending them into
shock with 40+ pages of design rules. Then, similar to what was done with
Dark Conspiracy (DarkTech), produce a book that covers the vehicle rules in
detail. THIS book would contain ALL the construction rules, from robots thru
boats, planes and motorcycles to scoutships, fighters and dreadnoughts. Well
okay, maybe it won't all FIT in one book, but this material should be released
as close together as possible. I waited 15 years for boats, and I don't want
to wait another 5 years to see them placed into the revision. Having one of
these books reach Striker-level design (regarding lasers, Mass drivers,
warheads, etc.) might not be a bad idea, but the idea is to provide a layer
above this, where players can stop if they like. The progression looks like
this:
-'Canned' craft descriptions
-Basic craft design (modularized?)
-Detailed craft design (including robots, aircraft and watercraft, and
non-standard-tech space craft)
-Ironmongery Design (ala Striker)
-Hand Weapon design (an official conversion from 3G would suffice)
The point is that a referee can stop at any of these steps, but not fear
incompatibility with a "deep designer" (someone like Scott Olson or Rob Dean)
who designs his craft lasers from the ground up.
Revisions in general:
Compared to the rest of the gaming world, 3 revisions in 15 years isn't bad
at all, and 2 revisions in 5 years is hardly the worst on record <finger-
pointing at certain other companies>.
As a side note, it would be the third 'go-round for character generation
and craft (not ship) design, and only the second version of any craft/mass
combat rules (the section in Ref's Companion is a teaser, not a system). This
would be either the fourth or FIFTH version of the ship-building rules (Book
2, High Guard, High Guard 2nd Ed, MegaTraveller, "Neo"Traveller) depending on
your opinion of the two editions of High Guard. The ship combat system would
reach version 5 or 6 with NeoTraveller (add Mayday to the above list), and
personal combat would reach version 6 (Book 1, Snapshot, AHL, Striker,
MegaTrav, NeoTrav).
Since the revision is a fact-to-be, do it RIGHT, and do it ONCE.
Farstar
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 410 Tue Nov 19, 1991
J.KUNDERT [Farstar] at 00:35 EST
Ahem...
By "the new topic" Rob means newly opened Topic 29: "The WISH List"
Farstar
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 411 Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 00:43 EST
Yes! Things are really starting to move. Mark, Glad to hear your input. Even
if you are basically negative about the switch of systems (not a bad thing)
I'm glad you at least are familiar with it enough to know WHY. You know the
game system better than I do, I'm sure.
I like Farstar's last line - Do it RIGHT, and do it ONCE! Somebody want to
make a banner and send it to GDW?
One of the things I personally like about the New System is the feeling you
get for your your character when generation is over. You don't just get skills
based on your chosen profession. You have to qualify for that profession
first. This may mean that you have to go to college first or do some outside
activities to improve a particular area you might be deficient in. Once you
are completed you have a really good idea of what your character has been
doing since about the age of 17. I always found the Traveller/MT system (and
even 2300AD) to be a little abstract. It gave you a handfull of skills but
didn't tell you too much about where they came from (2300AD is much worse than
MT in this respect).
I'm really enjoying this exchange. Keep it up!
- - Jay
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 412 Tue Nov 19, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST] at 03:59 EST
Loren,
Glad to see your posts. I'm also glad that you are actively asking for
comments and planning to explain what you plan to do for the new traveller
revision.
Baring unforeseen events you can expect me at the conference, though I
might just settle for listening initially depending on how things heat up.
By the way I've got some stuff heading your way (well to Michelle
Sturgeon, Nilsen might want to look at it too along with the previous issues
which I sent to Michelle, I'm talking about the fanzines I put out). I think
I've got some other stuff I should send your way now that the revision is
official. I'll try to get it out this week.
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Topic 29 Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List
You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
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Category 11, Topic 29
Message 5 Mon Nov 18, 1991
M.MIKESH at 23:47 EST
Joe remarked in 3:405, "Us old-timers don't necessarily go in for
the darker, more violent, less structured environments that the young
gamers go in for."
I'm not so sure if 'young gamers' shouldn't be 'current fad'. In
a few years, it could be a dead as disco.
But terminology aside, I think its very clear from the comments
on this board that there is a real danger of alienating the
'old-timers', and I don't think its something Traveller can afford.
From what I can tell, Traveller has not had an appreciable turn-over
of players. It established a core group over a decade ago, and that
is what has kept it alive all these years. Loose them, and Traveller
might not be around for long.
Yet stagnation is another danger. GDW should be free to be
innovating and try things to bring in new blood.
The best solution I can come up with right now is to let GDW wipe
the slate and do what they will. Let the main body of the old Imperium
follow its dark future. BUT, maintain a very different and more
traditional setting behind-the-claw.
To Trailing, the Imperium wallows in decay and ruin, a prime
setting for GDW's new initiative.
To Spinward, the attitude is one of growth and vitality. Here,
the flavor of Classic Traveller is preserved.
Players can then gravitate to the side they prefer most. GDW
doesn't have to commit itself either way, but balance support between
the two according to how things really go.
MIKE
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Category 11, Topic 29
Message 7 Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 00:57 EST
Good. Y'all seem to have the right idea here. Sorry if it it is a leading
question Rob but I wanted this topic to go in a specific direction. :)
If anybody is wondering wht I'm concerned with this at all (since I've already
admitted to not being that involved with Traveller at all up to now). I
consider myself to be a potential purchaser of the new game. I've been working
on and off on a conversion for 2300AD to the new system as I feel it to be
superior to the one given. I've always been turned off by the huge volumes of
information in Megatraveller without an easy way for a new player to digest
(excuse the pun) it all. Without many SF games on the market it would be nice
to see the new game do well.
As to the stuff that is already set in stone... I don't know any more then you
do. I thought that Star VIking was going to be specifically a miniature game.
Am I wrong? Where's Loren when you need him? There IS supposed to be a novel
(according to Marc Miller) possibly written by Chuck Gannon. Other than that,
I don't know.
Personally, I would like to see starship combat rules done something like the
2300/Starcruiser setup (except maybe playtested this time around). I would
like to see that any illustrations for equipment and weapons that will
translate over to the new game be taken from the existing stuff done for TD
and MTJ.
Thas' all for now...
- - Jay
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