Part Seven, at least, counting by the file numbers I'm saving this stuff in.
I believe that I've only omitted one message from Topic 3 here, the one that
contains the comparison with T:2000 that I posted directly here earlier today.
Note Loren Wiseman's message: keep those cards and letters coming.
Rob Dean
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Topic 29 Mon Nov 18, 1991
Sub: The WISH List
You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
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Category 11, Topic 29
Message 8 Tue Nov 19, 1991
B.BORICH [LA TERRORIST] at 08:13 EST
Hmmm, so little time and so much to do.......
Attempting to ignore all other comments and taking a real fast look (though
probably incomplete).
Well here's a possible book layout:
The 3 basic:
Character generation, Combat (land, sea, air, space; integrated),
travelling (excuse the pun) and Medical (including 'borgs, yeah
here's your chance for Cyberpunkism, but I'd suggest a better
job than 2300AD).
Background Book, Trade and Commerce rules.
Equipment Book (guns, vehicles, regular stuff, using DGP's equipment
form (and possibly Rob Prior's one for vehicles)).
The Expansion:
World Builders handbook (it would be nice to see a true alien system
type generation rather than Trav's oxy-nitro).
Vehicle construction book (land, sea, air, space, and 'bots; no bugs
and clear examples; and striker weapons
would be nice).
MTA books [I'm tired of seeing humans everywhere I land :), the cover of
Challenge 53(?) had more aliens on it than I've seen in Traveller and at first
I thought it was supposed to be a Star Wars cover till I read the blurb; In
Star Wars it aliens, aliens everywhere and Traveller it's humans, humans
everywhere. That's the feeling I get anyway].
Sector Book (I'm still awaiting the one from the rebellion period, I'd
also like to see the worlds change as time goes on, maybe with something like
Torg's feedback system to give the idea of the changing universe as time
passes. TNS by itself is too abstract).
[Aside, I'd like to still see GE as this would be still useful regardless
of the background].
Anyway, first off, I AM NOT PLANNING ON HOLDING GDW TO IT'S DEADLINE, I'D
RATHER SEE IT DONE RIGHT THAN RUSHED OUT, I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE SUPPORT
PRODUCTS COME OUT IN A TIMELY MATTER AFTERWARDS.
Okay, enough shouting for now. By support products I mean supplements and
most especially adventure projects. The first adventure product should be a
campaign type book or a series of adventures. Enough to get the GM going for
awhile.
<Modifying Character Generation rules> I like the flexibility of the DC
design system, in that I can create the character I want with the skills I
want. But I also like the promotion, medal and yearly event system of
Traveller. There are two ways to go about this that I can see of offhand, one
way is to retain the table system, but just allow the character to pick off
the table. The other is to have just the skill list like DC, with a
possibility each term of attending a special school and getting more skill
points in a related set. Offhand I'd prefer dropping as many tables as
possible, this would make it easier to modify the character generation system
to my whims and fancies and easier to create new professions (and tailor the
character to the world they might have lived on).
So much for the quick comment.
<Modifying vehicle/starship construction rules> I'd just like a realistic
bug free version here, with the addition of Mark Gelinas additions to starship
construction. The possible exception is Bill Hezeltine's fast design system
(not having seen the completed system I can't say for sure). The only other
problem I have is in possibly using weight in starship agility rules and the
agility rules themselves (weight tends to shift a lot on a starship, and the
agility rules had problems as many people will testify too. Also seeing STL
rules added and other such stuff would be okay too.
It would also be nice to see Airlocks used with some consistency. (why are
they there if not to be used?)
<Vehicle Combat> I'd like to see the same system for
air/ground/space/water (well, as similar as possible). Using something like
Roger Myhre's point based ship combat system would be a step in the right
direction.
<Trade and Commerce rules> I like the MT version, it tended to resemble
the adventure plots more than the old. And as for it being slightly abstract
(Robert Dean mentioned he preferred '30 tons of silver' used in the old
system, he forgot the problems of '30 tons of computer parts' or '30 tons of
weapons'), so was the old system, in the later case I needed to try and create
subtables of what the possible items could be.
Under the old rules I could get pretty wealthy with the right trade route
and a few hundred thousand in cash. Under the MT revision, the old adventure
set-ups made more sense. The starships constructed should keep in mind the
trade and commerce rules too (it's pretty stupid to design a merchant ship
that can't support itself on the average).
=============================
Mike Mikesh idea of a dark Imperium and Light Behind the Claw setting is a
good one and I like it (it also matches most of the facts of what might
occur).
As far as the Hard Times/Star Vikings setting is concerned, the problems I
see with this is that it should be short-lived (or trade was obviously more
important than heretofore given credit, or the damage much more severe than
credited to date). Also what are the other Empires doing, while the Imperial
interior is falling apart, sitting around playing tiddly winks? I could excuse
the Vargr, the Aslan to a minor extent, the Solomani are apparently having
internal problems(? most be major), the Zhodani have to contend with other
projects, and the Spinward Marches are still pretty intact and have new blood
and resources via the Aslan. That still leaves the Hivers and the K'Kree (time
to start a war between the two perhaps?), and how do you slow the Aslan down
(I'd vote for adding to the solomani problems and start a war on that front
too).
If GDW is going to to a succesful job of having this dark future in the
Imperium, they are going to have to do a much better job of detailing the
background with specifics to give the GM ideas of how to deal with it. Just
saying the Imperium is having a Dark Night doesn't give me the feeling of it,
the Imperium is just too large to identify this with, I'd want to see some of
the feeling of Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, or even some of the descriptive effects
of DC, a novel wouldn't be bad, an example of major worlds and their
surrounding systems with a before and after effect might even be better.
Well, I spent enough time on this today, gotta do my other stuff.
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Topic 3 Thu Jun 01, 1989
J.FUGATE at 18:48 MDT
Sub: MegaTraveller - General Discussions
This topic is to be a catch-all topic for any discussion that doesn't fit in
any other topic.
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 415 Tue Nov 19, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 19:15 EST
Rob,
In the Dark Conspiracy version of the system, characters end up wiht more
skills on the average than in straight T2k. Hopefully, this will be the same
for the new system. Hey, I should add that to my wish list!
- - Jay
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 416 Tue Nov 19, 1991
GDW.SUPPORT [Loren W.] at 20:44 EST
Just so you know, all of this is being recorded and distributed to Dave
Nilsen, Les Smith, and Frank Chadwick.
Would someone be so kind as to forward all relevant discussion on the
Internet TML to GDW?
More news on the RTC as it breaks...any suggestions as to the optimum
time?
Loren
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Category 11, Topic 3
Message 417 Tue Nov 19, 1991
R.DEAN14 [Rob Dean] at 20:53 EST
Mike Metlay writes:
Greetings to all concerned. My name is Metlay, and I am the Historian for the
Internet Traveller Mailing List. I do not yet have access to GEnie (although
this may change in time for the RTC), and am posting here by the kind graces
of fellow Traveller-head and musician Rob Dean (well, he SAYS he's a musician,
but nothing HE plays can be plugged in. But I digress), to whom I offer
thanks. I have been playing Traveller since the original three books (I know,
I know, who hasn't in this bunch?), and have been published twice in the JTAS
and once upcoming in MTJ3, or so Rob Caswell said.
Apology #1: I'm not going to pussyfoot around-- I am a Traveller-Classic
curmudgeon, and unashamed of the fact. Please take my comments accordingly.
Apology #2: I enjoy talking and writing for the sake of doing so. I save
brevity for my scientific output in the journals. If I get a bit wordy, please
forgive me.
News of the Traveller rules revision wasn't much of a surprise to me; I keep
close enough company with various folks to have an ear to the ground. What DID
knock me flat was the proposed future history of Star Viking. For the purposes
of clarity, I'm going to divide my comments into two parts: one on the concept
of revision to the rules themselves, and one on the Star Viking future
history.
On the rules revisions: frankly, I don't give a damn. I've been playing Trav
Classic for so many years that I don't even open the rule books any more; the
only part of the rules that I use consistently is character generation. With a
good party of players, I wing the rest. Once in a while, I add rules for
things that I find glaringly omitted; the current MT rules systems on
nonlethal weapons are based on one of my articles in JTAS, and the Type A2 Far
Trader came from a suggestion I made in 1978. But for the most part, I adapt
and let the rules take care of themselves. It's just not an issue to me-- game
mechanics that work are nice but not necessary.
On the other hand, as Historian of the TML, I have built up a huge database of
information on the Imperium, and have always admired the consistency and scope
of the future vision the Traveller rules have espoused. The Imperium and
surrounds, from the first hints in "The Kinunir" that there was a planet
called Regina to the huge map we have today, surpasses any other universe in
the gaming world. More information, more references, more detail. Not even
BattleTech, with its endless cascade of 30-dollar library books, or Shadowrun,
with module after module of jacked-in elf maidens with huge ta-tas, has
matched the fourteen years of output that have made the Imperium what it is.
The problem with such a well-developed system is that it becomes monolithic
and immutable. Sudden changes to the worldline can be catastrophic. And a
decision to totally shift the game's focus can have a shattering effect far
worse than that of the three bullets for Stref, Mrs. Stref, and Baby Stref.
There were gaping and growing holes in the scientific and technical background
of Traveller since the beginning: in TClassic, computers had less processing
power than Hewlett-Packard calculators, and in MT, the basic assumptions about
maneuver drive were mangled in favor of a nonphysical, ridiculous and useless
idea of "thruster plates". (Sorry, but I'm a physicist. I can forgive antigrav
under the right circumstances, and even FTL for the sake of a good game, but
thrusters violate basic conservation laws and serve no purpose whatever in
doing so). But these were fixable, ultimately: if a half dozen widely-used
sectors could be obliterated from the map with one wave (anyone wanna buy an
old Ley Sector map? Not the GDW one-- the JUDGES' GUILD!), problems with the
technology and consistency of the hardware were trivial to deal with. Not a
problem....
There were gaping and growing holes in the sense of historical flow and
precedent in the Traveller universe, but these were largely staged by Marc
Miller, whose guiding vision made a lot of worldshaking events seem not only
possible, but even halfway reasonable after some prodding. The Zhodani AREN'T
baby crushing scumbags, fine. The Droyne are the Ancients, fine. The Aslan
aren't a Major Race, fine. The Darrian Star Trigger doesn't work, fine. Not a
problem....
The point I'm making (forgive me, and pity the TML, who have to read through
this shovelling all the damn time) is that the Universe could take a little
poking and prodding to rearrange the bits that didn't quite jibe.
But...STAR VIKING?!
Let me see if I have this straight. A horrible superduper computer virus gets
released and causes every computer in the Universe to lock up. Civilization
falls apart, and bands of freebooters with laser guns and swords battle for
control of what's left.
Uh-huh. I tried this one out on my best friend's nephew, who's eight years
old, and HIS comment was, "Gimme a break." His older brother, a tender
twelve, said, "What is it supposed to be-- bad H. Beam Piper or bad Frank
Herbert?"
Nobody's buying it, that I know of. And if people don't buy it, well, it
won't sell. It is, simply put, a stupid concept. Like Being Hit On The Head
Lessons. There are other systems that could allow the usual inane munchkins
out there an afternoon's diversion with such ideas with a minimum of fuss and
bother-- a GURPS Space variant, say. But why drag the Imperium-- THE IMPERIUM!-
- - into this morass of idiotic pseudoscifi?
Fourteen years of development and eleven thousand years of history deserve a
bit more than "Whoops, a computer virus wiped it all out. Game over."
The revision is a fine idea. It fixes problems with MT, allows GDW to continue
hiring people like Blair Reynolds, Larry Elmore and Dave Dietrick to make
their materials look like they give a damn who buys them, and (most
importantly for GDW) opens a new avenue for income. Traveller reborn into the
1990s!
A recurrent conversation with Loren Wiseman at the six GenCOns we saw each
other for, 1984 to 1989, was:
"Gonna come watch Near Miss this year, Loren?" "Too tired, Metlay-- after you
do this for a living, GAMING loses its luster."
He was right. GDW is not in this entirely, or even mostly, out of love of
gaming any more. They're in this to make money. To survive in a market where
it seems FASA can do no wrong (*ugh*). And an update of Traveller to meet the
challenge is sensible-- it combines the Traveller mystique with a fresh new
look. I applaud their courage and advertising vision.
But they'd better have a future history on line that's a damn sight more
interesting than rehashed Battletech if they want to keep their old fans and
make any new ones.
metlay
PS. Would anyone be interested in a Traveller Classic novel based on the
characters in the aforementioned Near Miss Traveller Tournaments?
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