************
Topic 26 Wed Aug 09, 1989
M.MIKESH at 22:33 EDT
Sub: Publication Development
This is a forum for the discussion of new and upcoming Traveller products.
Participants can offer suggestions and share ideas for projected
publications, or critique new releases and announce errata.
************
------------
Category 11, Topic 26
Message 205 Fri Nov 29, 1991
S.OLSON4 at 15:21 EST
Lester,
RE: bell-curves & modifiers - the fact that a +1 doesn't mean as much to a
high-skill character as it does to a low-skill character is one of the great
ADVANTAGES of the 2d6 vs 1dX system. Law of diminishing returns, and all
that. If you're good at something, an improvement of 5% isn't nearly as
noticeable as it is when you're bad at it.
Auto success is also a concept that should be avoided, if possible: there
are some things that someone who isn't sufficiently skilled simply cannot do.
Luck's great, but there are times when it's not enough. Somebody with a skill
level of 1 should not be as able to perform Very Difficult tasks as someone
who has a skill level of 4, but under the current proposal that's the way it
would work.
What types of dice are we talking here? One of the things that I always
(after encountering D&D) liked about Traveller was that it didn't make you
carry a whole pile of dice around with you. 4 six-siders were usually
sufficient. Now we're talking d20's, d100's, probably some d6's, etc.
RE: Virus - This idea is, still, unnecessary and a cause of great
heartburn for those of us who make our livings using computers. If you were
somehow determined to destroy the computers of the Imperium from the inside
you'd have to start working 100+ years in advance, and you'd have absolutely
no guarantee of even moderate success. The job's simply too big. The worst
part of this thing is that it isn't necessary to do the job, and has the nasty
effect of making things look all to much like T2K v1.
RE: Intimidation - Truth. If this bunch is intimidated, we'd really be
bad off on our own. I can see how someone with a project on the bubble,
though, might be a little bit circumspect.
Mark,
RE: Stat ranges - Actually, for certain races, stats went as high as 20
(Virushi Str & Dex).
Kevin,
RE: Task level names - Good point. Average can easily be misconstrued,
and probably shouldn't be used here.
------------
Category 11, Topic 26
Message 206 Sat Nov 30, 1991
M.MIKESH at 13:39 EST
Les -
<In T2K and D-Con, things never really get better, I suppose. Or
more accurately, the PCs can make things better, but they can never
really FIX the way the world is. In Traveller, on the other hand, the
Star Viking era is just one part of the overall history.>
But there's no real difference here. In T2K, things also get
better, at least by 2300. I think of Neo-Traveller as 'dark future' in
that its set in a future setting where the history is pretty bad for
at least the span of a typical adventuring career.
<We have already sketched out a time line reaching beyond that
era and into the future--a time line that will keep us extremely busy
with adventures, sourcebooks, and novels>
A word of caution: In talking with Traveller players, a lot were
excited by the Rebellion and the glorious conflict among Lucan,
Dulinor, Margaret, and so on. They were disappointed to realize that
the activities of their characters had no influence on the outcome. A
lot of this probably stems from REBELLION SOURCEBOOK.
I'm not sure if gamers really want a dynamic setting, dynamic in
that major events are controlled by the game company, changing the
background under them whether they like it or not. Under classic
Traveller, things weren't that way. Sure, the Fifth Frontier War came
rolling in. But it rolled by out again leaving things largely
unchanged. It was actually useful in that the ref could tie a lot of
things he invents to the recent war, and do so at his leasure.
So, I think this would be a good thing -- a largely static
setting beset upon by temporary conditions that could have a large or
small effect on a campaign depending on the referee.
Parallelling the AD&D product line might not be a bad idea.
Novels could involve these 'temporary conditions', giving color to
worlds and subsectors. Adventures and subsector sourcebooks could
then provide game related details to what the novels covered, and fill
in other things for parallel adventuring.
MIKE
------------
************
Topic 29 Mon Nov 18, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 00:43 EST
Sub: The WISH List
You know that the new Traveller is coming soon to a game store near you - but
is you had your way, what would you want to see in it?
************
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 72 Fri Nov 29, 1991
K.BRENNAN2 [Kevin] at 12:25 EST
Regarding the virus:
All else aside, it's not that unreasonable for such a thing to be CAPABLE
of affecting most computers within the Imperium. Remember, Challenge #54
mentions standardized IDP's for weapons, etc., so I'd expect that computer
architecture is also standardized.
Now, if it affected ALIEN computers I'd think it was stupid...
(Note that this does not mean that I approve, just that varying
architecture is not likely to be a problem within the Imperium.)
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 73 Fri Nov 29, 1991
B.BORICH [Kagekiha] at 15:20 EST
<Bertil> Glad you got my late return letter and glad to hear from you.
Right now I'm hoping that GEnie adds an Internet Email link if things work out
okay.
<Couple this with the fact that new system characters tend to consolidate
their skill points, rather than dispersing them quite as much> Yes, but some
of us like that wide dispersal of skills.
<3) Having generated several T2K2 and DC characters, I question the
likelihood of them having many skills at level 8. Look at Dara Schwartz in
DC, or both sample characters in T2K2. I see a lot of 2's, 3's and 4's, but
not many 8's. (OK, ONE 7). The other sample character in DC has a few high
skill levels, but is a total klutz outside of Empathy related skills. Are you
sure that we won't get a universe of bumbling fools, especially now that
sucess chances have been reduced still further?> Having created one of those
characters I somewhat agree, though perhaps if I had just concentrated on 2 or
three areas I would have been better off :) (If I were GMing DC my first
official rule change would be doubling the skill points given per term)
James King I believe had a review of DC in which he stated something about
GDW's 50-year old characters (to paraphrase very loosely).
Of course that one of the reasons, I like going over to DC/T2K character
generation (it's easier to increase the skill points).
<Due to Les' recent comments, I have to say that my opinions of the
revision are radically changing. A lot of my fears have been have been
soothed and I'm actually feeling that this will be something positive and
worth waiting for, instead of an inevitable to be dreaded and lived with.> It
sounds good, but does it look good? Still waiting to see.............
DEFINITION:
Computer Design Scientist: A person who specializes in the ART of
designing computers.
<As for the Computer Virus associated with Star Viking, I have talked to
Frank and it will not be a computer virus as we currently think of the the
term. (Although I will confess that that was his first thought). Rather
it will be a program that takes advantage of a rather universal current
architecture flaw and attacks computers in such a way that main processor
replacement is required. There is an assumption that computer production
is controlled by other computers which are vulnerable to attack. I also
felt it was important that the failure be masked initially as a straight
production problem/flaw to allow the virus to spread. It is the
combination of massive loss of main processors along with production
shutdown caused by the loss of main processors (I love catch-22s) that
causes the long night. Note that since the person initiating the virus is
the Emperor it could be dispersed by him from several key manufacturing
facilities as part of a technological innovation given free to
manufactures or at least something along those lines.> I presume a better
concept has since come to mind? This idea really bites the big one.
<The program is transmitted machine to machine similarly to computer virus.
It is the part of the computer it attacks that is different. Rather than
atacking memory it destroys the CPU. There is a big assumption that the
existing viral safeguards could be circumvented which would be no easy
task. My assumption was that this would be feasable because those programs
were guarding against memory assaults. Hey this is a big gimme, but then
so is most science fiction. At any rate, the lag time before the program
takes effect is similar to a virus and is how it gets so widely dispersed.
CPU failure should look very small when the virus is first introduced but
increase exponetially as the virus takes effect. "Seeding" production
facilities insures their shut down leading to the lack of replacement
CPUs. All of this spirals with the social collapse causing lack of
transport to provide manufacturing materials and food for the people.>
Oh goody goody, I'm supposed to take my TL8 floppy disk and stick it in a
TL5 computer, and of course I'm somehow supposed to also transfer this
material to a F-16 fighter at the same time. Please give me a break. And I
could have bleeploads of fun toggling this virus into my Altair or IMSAI 8080.
< Let's assume that I run
the CIA (or something) and have found a virus that would turn oil into
useless but corrosive sludge that would over a period of months destroy
the engines that use it. I'm crazy, my parents lived next to a tollway
and died of Carbon Monoxide poisioning (at least so I think) so stopping
all engines seems like a pretty good idea. The virus lives in the tankers
(I seed), it lives in the factories (I seed), it lives in the gas tanks
and the build up will destroy the engine that burns it (not right away but
in a month or so). How am I doing this I'm sending operatives out with
kits to check for someone doing this to us and doing the test seeds the
oil/gas. I told my reasearch team to go figure out a way to do this to
Iraq now that we have the virus and they came up with the kit. Suddenly
tractors don't go farmers can't plant crops and the world starts to
starve. Yeah they can switch to horses, but a farmer with a horse can
support far fewer people than one with a tractor. They know the problem,
they know the solution, but most of the internal cumbustion engines no
longer work. Worse most of the planting didn't get done. How do they get
the raw materials to the factory to make the new engines without them?
How do they get decide who gets fed (oh they could get by this year by
depleting seed stocks and breeding stock, but they would certainly starve
next year without seeds to plant or animals to breed)? How do they get
the food they have to where the people are?>
Guess I'll have to use those local LPG vehicles for one.....but than
admittedly gasoline has a bit less variety than CPUs. Admittedly, it would
probably be a tough couple of years as engines are rebuilt to use other fuel
sources. And if you want you could always use ethanol in the meantime also
(with associated problems).
<Frank's assumption is that Traveller societies are pretty close to that
dependent on computers. The fall is not from TL15 to TL6, but from TL15
to TL0 and then the problem is how far can the survivors come back. Also I
have always interpreted Traveller TLs as being the TL that a planet could
support on its own. I could go one step further and even say it is what
the planet can support given the support it gets from other worlds. How
many worlds do you think it takes to support a TL15 world? I wouldn't
think most TL15 worlds are self-sufficient and if space travel is
interupted they will suffer economically. For lower TLs it is almost
certain these planets import higher TL stuff to make their life easier and
are vulnerable through these imports. Want an analogy I remember seeing a
program recently on the Amazon Basin Indians where they live extremely
primitive lives, but the chief still has a motorcycle to get around on and
most villagers now use bicycles.> This is interesting as ALL PREVIOUS
PRESUMPTIONS I've seen indicate the reverse of that. And while Amazon Indians
might use a motorcycle or bike, they don't necessarily die if they lose it.
And not all worlds are TL15 either. If this level of trade is correct, the
Rebellion should have f__ked up trade so severely, that your virus would have
definite troubles traveling anywhere, let alone between factions. After all,
all the starport capacity went into constructing warships basically, and all
those merchant ships out there are limping along on old parts, those that
don't get shot-up anyway. Gee Whiz, guess I might been right about trade being
important, but even I never thought it was that important.
<[ As a total aside, the only virus I can conceive of that would do the
job GDW *wants* theirs to do, would be a real, *organic* virus that
has an appetite for doped Gallium-Arsenide (or the TL15 equivalent),
ala the 'Andromeda Strain'. Now *that* would not only be nasty, but
also almost, *almost* believable. ]> I was hoping you were using something
like this at least (those favorite little critters of Mike's), though this
still has the problems of what materials to eat.
<All else aside, it's not that unreasonable for such a thing to be CAPABLE of
affecting most computers within the Imperium. Remember, Challenge #54
mentions standardized IDP's for weapons, etc., so I'd expect that computer
architecture is also standardized.
Now, if it affected ALIEN computers I'd think it was stupid...
(Note that this does not mean that I approve, just that varying
architecture is not likely to be a problem within the Imperium.)> Actually,
running a more homogenous type universe than most Traveller GM's, even I never
assumed this except in the different computers used aboard STARships, even
than I'd have severe doubts thinking on it some more (while we don't have the
Mark XII standard processor we do have one that is configured to communicate
like one with your other processors, or lets watch a 680xx imitate an 80xxx
processor via code).
Having played/worked on more variaties of computers in my first 7 years of
dealing with said (including a two year hiatus from the beasts), than most
have in 25 years (not my opinion). I have yet to find an easy way to transfer
information between the suckers. Plus I'm still waiting for that paperless
office (all I've seen is more ways of generating paper). Anyway, I'm wondering
what all those practice hacker runs and maintenance cycles are for (yes, there
are companies out there that hire companies to break into their computers, and
some companies even run weekly and monthly maintenance checks on their
equipment).
And no this is not a very good rebuttal, but than computer design is not
my specialty, I just try to keep up with all their different arguments of what
design is best. I guess once they make this a science we won't have to worry
about that problem, will we?
I actually too pissed to bother forming good rebuttals.
Signed,
Computer Artist (and don't tell me Programming is a science, only
some of the tools are).
P.S. IF YOU REALLY WANT A VIRUS, USE NANNIES. Of course the problem with this
is the years to cross the Imperium P.P.S. The other problem you have with the
virus is also the time it takes to cross the Imperium, and granted Emperors
are not necessarily intelligent, but why would his subordinates allow him to
sabotage their own computers (well, granted humans are dumb at times)?
P.P.P.S. Didn't someone say something about secrets not being secret once two
people knew about it (let alone more than 2). Let me see, the message goes
something like this to let's say only 200 worlds "Dear Admiral (or those
concerned), we want you to have all computer CPU manufacturing companies to
install defects in their structures so that we can destroy them."
P.P.P.P.S. Please feel free to ignore my comments, I can always feel free to
have the Rebellion be the cause of the Dark Night, or remember KISS (or
perhaps even Occam's Razor).
P.P.P.P.P.S. And of course, what are all those other alien races gonna be
doing in the meantime (okay guys, the Imperium's fallen, now remember, we
can't open hostilities with them till they pick themselves back up again). I
presume you have something going on here too. I just hope it's more
intelligent than the proposed virus (not that viruses are intelligent you
understand, at least not under normal circumstances).
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 74 Fri Nov 29, 1991
S.OLSON4 at 15:49 EST
Kevin,
RE: Virus & Standardized computers - The IN and Imperial bureaucracies
_MAY_ have semi-standardized systems (though not likely, look at the mess in
the US armed forces and agencies), and the big megacorps _MIGHT_, nobody else
will. Why? Because trade simply isn't that important in the Imperium, and
because each local world that has the population needed to produce these
beasts will do so themselves. And when they do that, they'll introduce
various changes to any standard design (to take into account any special
circumstances) and pretty soon they have their own system. After all, if they
were all producing the identical computer, then you'd a) have no competition,
and b) have to pay license fees to somebody for the use of their design. And
if it's old enough to be unlicensed, then it's probably not worth the bother
of producing.
Trade in the Imperium has ALWAYS, from day 1, been said to be primarily
luxuries. Yes, Ag worlds export agricultural products and In worlds export
finished (or partially finished) goods, but most worlds (excepting the low-pop
worlds) can survive just fine without imports. They might have some rich
people's toys break down, and life might not be as pleasant as before, but it
certainly won't collapse. I mean, look at the Long Night! The collapse of
the Rule of Man didn't result in everyone suddenly going back to square one
and starting over. Things just slowly crumbled, and the various planets
slowly lost contact. Read Piper's _The Cosmic Computer_ and _Space Viking_
for a very good explanation of what happens.
Even if you use the "eater" concept of a virus, most of the big-ship
computers that you really want to get are going to be at least partially
optical. Now, this is a problem, because now you need something that eats
glass. It's doable, but it will leave the normal computers alone. And just
how are you getting all of these things into position? And what about those
Hiver computers the IN's been buying.......
Scott
P.S. This isn't to say that Star Vikings doesn't interest me, because it
does. All I'm saying is come up with a better way to explain it. Anyway, the
way's already sitting there looking at you: the Rebellion.
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 75 Sat Nov 30, 1991
M.MIKESH at 13:40 EST
Wooh. Its really hard to digest all this.
Bertil Jonell: "My personal suggestion would be to let people who
know as little as possible about the game do the proofreading and
playtesting."
I really like this idea. Joe Fugate has mentioned on occasion
that Traveller writers tend to write from the perspective of familiar-
ity. While I agree there's no point in trying to draw in entry level
players, Traveller needs to attract established players from other
game systems.
Bertil's suggestion sounds like a great idea to catch slip-ups.
To this end, I'd like to offer the Washington Metropolitan Area
Gaming Society (WMAGS). They sponsored the lion's share of RP
tournaments at Origins '91. They already do official playtesting for
other companies, something the organization wants to do much more of.
They'd love an opportunity to assemble groups for Neo-Traveller
playtesting.
Steven Bonneville: "You could have Vargr and human groups
competing in Corridor and Lishun, and in Corridor they could deal with
relatively vital factions making attempts to stop them on the fringes
of the sector."
Steven does have a point. Why does the new setting have to
involve all of Imperial space? Like TRILLION CREDIT SQUADRON,
narrowing the scope to a single sector or smaller sounds like an
attractive option.
Under classic Traveller, all GDW did was the Spinward Marches
till later. We had the wall map that showed where the rest of the
Imperium was and the other interstellar states. But we didn't really
know much about all that, and it didn't really matter. (I loved
Traveller Digest's sector series and the expanded scope brought by
the Rebellion. But I think it got the game into a lot of trouble.)
The same could be done with Diaspora or some other sector.
Here, things are pretty bad right now. Elsewhere, who knows? Let
a licensee work that out. But here be the setting for STAR VIKING
and Neo-Traveller, and this is what the products for the next year or
two will support.
Computer Virus: Whether DV be plausible or implausible by
today's understanding, keep in mind that Traveller does incorporate a
number of gimmes. One of these is that simple wetware can create a
spectrum of psionic effects. Swallow that, and DV isn't so far
fetched. (I bet I just opened another nasty can of worms.)
MIKE
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 78 Sun Dec 01, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 03:21 EST
Also, I really DID want this to be a place to say what you wanted to
see in the new revision... If you can't edit out some of the more offensive
messages to post elsewhere I would appreciate the entire batch going
elsewhere. Most of the stuff seems okay but some of the messages aren't
very constructive at all.
As long as I'm on the subject of these messages - I would be really
curious to find out a few things about the people who DON'T want
the T2K 2nd ed. rules type system: A) Have they ever used it, read it,
or know anything FIRST HAND about it. B) Do they use the MT task system
(most of the people have said yea or nay on that subject but I am
curious about the others).
- Jay
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 79 Sun Dec 01, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago] at 12:40 EST
Re: Smaller chunks...
The last was about the smallest that will come through. What's the difference
between one large message and 20 smaller ones??? Seems to me one larger one
is preferable.
Re: Posting elsewhere and Editing...
1) I will _not_ edit the posts. They are a service to the GEnie, the TML
members, and GDW, and (I thought) DGP to see their customers' reactions. I do
edit non- NeoTraveller articles out of the TML but I will not edit the basic
article. Nor do I necessarily read the articles prior to post.
2) Since this isn't a _one_ person show, how many others want the TML stuff
stopped?? How many want it to stay for the time being? Be aware that the
appropriate articles are showing up on TML (without editing I might add).
At least the efforts of Rob and I are appreciated on the TML.
Heck, since DGP is discontinuing Traveller support, why is this topic so
worrisome to DGP?
+-------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-* [email removed] | You can have peace. Or you |
| GEnie - C.FAGO1 | can have freedom. Don't ever |
| Carl Fago State College, PA | count on having both at once.|
+-------------------------------+------------------------------+
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 80 Sun Dec 01, 1991
B.BORICH [Kagekiha] at 13:18 EST
Mike,
<CPU's creating psionic effects> Granted, but I don't think so at the TL's
available, in any case you still have a dispersal problem (for the area they
want to cover).
Though you could say it was an Ancient discovery ala Black Globes.
Jay,
Well, sometimes offensive things need to be said, just so long as they
don't get too personal (though I would say the Computer designer is taking a
bit of flak for his idea, and well, all I can say is that the idea stinks,
it's too complicated, when there are simpler solutions).
Anyway this area seems to be just as much for what people want to see as
well as what they don't want to see.
T2K, read parts of it, used it never, played it never. But than I don't
like the concept, anymore than I did Aftermath's (though with some alteration
I could probably survive it).
DC, read it, have not really used it yet, played it once. For a horror
type RPG I love it, for an RPG in general, I'm still undecided, though I'll
probably like it. I know the first thing I'd do if I used it would be to
increase the skill points available by double.
All,
I think we all can settle on some points from the discussion/arguments so
far:
1st: No virus, let the rebellion be the cause.
2nd: Light behind the claw (spinward marches stay roughly intact).
3rd: No errata (i.e. probably no more than one pages worth at least,
people make mistakes, the idea is to make only a few and not
to rush things).
4th: A complete set of vehicle building rules, with perhaps a fast
system for just starships(?) in the main rules (possibly ships
under either 5ktons or 1ktons in size).
5th: MTA's and WBH still available.
(Care to vote on it?)
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 81 Sun Dec 01, 1991
K.BRENNAN2 [Kevin] at 13:22 EST
I KNEW that I should have typed that message about computers offline - I'm
always a bit rushed when I don't.
Anyway, about IDP's (from Challenge #54, p. 54):
"Sorku's comments refer to the widespread adherence to Imperial Data
Package designs as the standard for widely used designs of weapons, vehicles,
and heavy equipment.
"While use of IDP designs has never been required or urged by the Imperium,
most member-systems have used these data packages as blueprints for the
production of crucial systems.
"In addition to being very user-friendly and well-supported with
supplementary programs and inexpensive industrial start-up programs, most
worlds have found that the use of IDP's aids their economies by enabling them
to be conversant with, and capable of meeting, the maintenance and equipment
needs of visiting starships and crews."
Granted, the article doesn't refer to computers, but I'd be willing to bet
that the same thing applies. Also, Traveller literature has never mentioned
compatability problems when computers communicate.
Before this, I had assumed that weapons, vehicles, and heavy equipment
varied wildly. In fact, all three seem (to my admittedly non-expert mind) to
be far more subject to local variation than computers.
Now, if you accept this, it still doesn't mean that the virus idea is
necessarily a good one, just that it's possible. There are still many, many
difficulties to be overcome:
Distributing the thing: Technological innovation? I think not. A TL 16
blueprint would only be useful to TL 16 worlds, and if it's any lower in TL,
it's not an innovation. Besides, won't some of the billions of computer and
software engineers notice something? And, if it has only a few release
points, it could indeed take centuries to circulate. And I might question if
it would ever spread to the other factions, who might be using incompatible
computers by this time.
(Actually, having it fail to destroy the other factions sounds like a
pretty good idea to me. Without the Solomani, Vilani, Antares, and Daibei,
the ex-Imperium is going to be overrun by Aslan, Hivers, and Vargr. The
factions, OTOH, don't have the resources to conquer what's left. Also, for
what it's worth, I'd be much more willing to play in this universe.)
Security: The "First Law of Security" states that the chance of a given
secret leaking rises proportional to the _square_ of the number of people
aware of it. I think this is what Bryan was looking for.
I concur with Bryan and Scott about trade: most worlds appear to be largely
self-sufficient.
However, our disagreement about the homogenity of computers is partially
tied to the fact that we're arguing from different starting points. I am not
discussing what I think the situation _should_ be; I'm just discussing what
the literature suggests it is and what I think GDW is assuming it is.
Basically, I think any argument that ignores these points will not
convince GDW:
1) They want Imperial civilization to collapse.
2) They want it to collapse over a year or two.
and 3) They want it to be done with a computer virus.
"Logic? The man's talking about logic! We're talking about UNIVERSAL
ARMAGEDDON!" - L.H. McCoy
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 82 Sun Dec 01, 1991
DIGEST.GROUP [Staff] at 15:19 EST
"Why is this so worrisome to DGP?"
It's not. It's annoying to me PERSONALLY because I started this topic with a
specific goal in mind. I don't ask that those messages not be posted, only
that they go elsewhere. I don't want anybody censored but my original
intention was for this to be a CONSTRUCTIVE discussion of things people want
to see in the new Traveller revision. This way, the GDW folks can look through
here without having to wade through alot of nonsense messages from people that
don't have much to ADD.
Carl, if you're not even reading those messages and don't know what they
contain then DON'T post them here. Topic one or the Publication Development
topics will get read as well as this one. Personally, I don't think personal
attacks on GDW belong ANYWHERE in this BBS but I'm not a sysop and don't have
any control over that. Saying that GDW should by covered with meat by-products
and thrown to the carnivores is NOT what I consider appropriate and I'll bet
that the folks at GDW will take stuff like that into consideration when
measuring peoples comments.
- - Jay
------------
Category 11, Topic 29
Message 83 Sun Dec 01, 1991
C.FAGO1 [Carl Fago] at 18:10 EST
Jay, the point being that there is a lot of information gathered and I don't
have the time to wade through it all and I will not selectively edit.
Oft times topics go a different direction than originally intended. This is
not a bad thing in general.
Anybody who reads any topic or BB or email or mailing list has to realize that
the burden of content is on the writer, not the person or company providing
the service (this has already been borne out in a court of law, I might add.)
With the good comes the bad. If there is a person writing offensive things
that are already covered in the rules for GEnie then, when it has been pointed
out, I will remove _all_ articles from that person.
Again, I will not selectively edit a post. The bad comes with the good.
BTW, how do you propose I determine what is "good" vs what is "bad"? I think
we have already seen several long messages that you would have determined to
be "bad" and not posted while I would have thought they were "good". GDW can
ignore the "garbage" as well as I or you can.
Due to my own time constraints, I will not divide up the TML to conform to the
Topic list. What I can recommend is that you treat the individual posts in a
TML post as being from the person who wrote it and if you have something to
say, say it to that person. I will even go so far as to forward email so long
as the number of messages doesn't get too large. Remember the old adage,
"Don't shoot the messenger."
+-------------------------------+------------------------------+
| *-=Carl=-* [email removed] | You can have peace. Or you |
| GEnie - C.FAGO1 | can have freedom. Don't ever |
| Carl Fago State College, PA | count on having both at once.|
+-------------------------------+------------------------------+
------------