Old Stuff
In reply to #4976 Starport Economics and the Fall of the Imperium by Bertil Jonell
Here are a bunch of things I was going to post to TML during the period that it was down; I saved them up so here they come all at once! I may have mentioned some of these things on TML-Not!, but as far as I remember I did not post the following messages generally. Bertil Jonell [email removed] writes: > Assuming a static total tonnage in the Imperium, the shipyards must divide > their space into doing the yearly overhaul and building ships to replace those > who go away (through age or destruction). Right. Class A or B ports can do yearly maintainance and all types of repairs. In Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller, no mention is made of any TL requirements for these overhauls; they can be done at *ANY* class A or B port. According to Trillion Credit Squadron, repairs can be performed at a Class A or B port (although Jump-Drive repairs take twice as long and cost twice as much at Class B facilities). TCS also imposes the limitation that the facility doing the repair must be at the same (or higher) tech level as the listed TL (in the High Guard construction tables) for the system. Only Class A ports can construct new ships. One problem I see with the TCS rules is that there are 29 Class A starports listed at tech levels below 9. By definition, these ports are able to construct jump-capable starships; however, TCS rules makes them unable to repair the jump-drives of any ships that they construct. Furthermore, the definition of Class C ports indicates that they are capable of some types of repairs, but not annual maintainance overhauls. A complete model should assign some type of capacity to these ports for repairing damaged starships. > [comments on the economics of overhauls, maintainance, and repairs] Huh? Where did your numbers come from? From the designs I have available, military starships can cost over 1 MCr per ton, while commercial ships cost between 0.3 and 0.1 MCr per ton. Construction time depends on the size of the vessel, with larger ships taking longer to construct. Repair is more difficult to estimate. According to TCS, "normal" battle damage takes 1 to 4 weeks to fix, and costs 1/4 of the cost of the damaged system. In the case of partially damaged systems (for example, factor 3 system damaged by 1 factor), the fraction is also applied to the repair cost (in this example, the repair cost would be 1/4 of 1/3 of the cost of the system). Critical hits require the complete replacement of the system, at full purchase price; this takes 4 to 8 weeks. In the examples below, I have assumed damage that involves the power plant (damaged to inoperability through normal weapons fire) and the jump drive (destroyed by a critical hit); and minimum time to replace the systems. A bulk freighter of 100,000 tons, built at TL-15 with Jump-1 performance costs 0.1179 MCr per ton, and will take 208 weeks to construct. The income from this works out to 566.59 credits per ton-week. The same ship pays 11.785 MCr for its annual maintainance, which occupies 100,000 tons of shipyard capacity for two weeks, or 58.92 credits per ton-week. Repair of normal damage costs 628.75 MCr, or 1,571,88 credits per ton-week. Critical repairs cost 6,000 MCr, or 7,500.00 credits per ton-week. A 400 ton subsidized merchant (built using my own design, rather than the one in the Imperial Encyclopedia) built at TL-15 with Jump-1 performance costs 0.2125 MCr per ton, and will take 64 weeks to construct. This works out to be 3,320.31 credits per ton-week. For annual maintainance, this ship will pay 85,000 Cr for two weeks work, or 106.25 credits per ton-week. Repairs cost 2.675 MCr and 24 MCr; or 1,671.88 and 7,500.00 credits per ton-week. A 400 ton Q-ship (pirate catcher disguised as a subsidized merchant) built at TL-15 with maneuver-4, jump-4 performance costs 1.1075 MCr per ton, and will take 64 weeks to complete, for 17,304.69 credits per ton-week. Its annual maintainance will cost 443,000 Cr for two weeks work, or 553.75 credits per ton-week. Repairs cost 23.9 MCr and 60.0 MCr; or 14,937.50 and 18,750 credits per ton-week. The following ships are purely Naval vessels (although I assume that it is possible that the destroyer or escorts could turn up in the Rebellion or Hard Times as vikings or starmercs. A 9,500 ton escort costs 9,499 MCr, while a destroyer based on the same hull costs 14,178 MCr; both would take 160 weeks to construct, for 6,249.34 and 9,327.63 credits per ton-week, respectively. The maintainance figures are 499.95 and 746.21 credits per ton-week. A 95,000 ton frigate costs 117,668 MCr, and takes 208 weeks to complete. This makes its figures 5,954.86 and 619.31 credits per ton-week for construction and maintainance. I think that it is reasonable to conclude that merchant ships will cost between 1,000 and 5,000 credits per ton-week to construct (with smaller ships costing more, and therefore being more profitable). Annual maintainance overhauls are much less profitable, at 50 to 200 credits per ton-week. Military and starmerc ships of any size are much more profitable than merchant craft; again smaller ships are more profitable. Repairs are more profitable than annual maintainance; these profits are of the same order of magnitude as new construction (repair of critical hits can be more lucrative than new construction). This business is much less secure (depending as it does on essentially random events) than construction or annual overhauls. All of these numbers suggest some assumptions about the way shipyards work, and about the way they make a profit. I'm assuming that the cost per ton-week of capacity is a measure of the shipyards resources, both in terms of capacity and in terms of the labor, parts, and materials required. Since the shipyard is in business to earn a profit, this figure also includes the yard's profit margin. Small ships (certainly under 5,000 tons, with most of them being under 1,000 tons) is quite profitable. Enough so that they may be produced on speculation when the shipyard is otherwise idle. If the market for such vessels is strong, this type of speculation can even be more profitable than performing annual maintainance. Annual maintainance is the least profitable of all shipyard activities. However, it is the only one which can be performed by Class B starports, and presumably almost all of this work is done there. Annual maintainance at a Class A port would be unusual, and an indication of unusually high demand for this service. At this point, prices would start to go up, as demand outstripped supply. These price increases are almost all profit for the shipyard; as the price goes up, overhauls start to become as profitable as new construction. Larger ships are more efficient for the operator. The 100,000 ton bulk freighter's cargo bay is slightly over 77% of the ship's entire volume, while a comparable 400 ton subsidized merchant can devote slightly over 62% of its volume to cargo and passengers. However, these larger ships are less profitable for the shipyards. The construction and maintainance of large ships is probably done under long term or large order contract. During the Imperium, transport companies with long term freight contracts or secure routes could easily borrow money to build such ships. Outside of the Safes in the post-Rebellion era, the companies which used to let these kinds of contracts no longer exist, and the lack of stability prevents their re-creation; very large transports are therefore unknown. This, and not the large amounts of repairs, is what breaks the interstellar economy (in my not-so-humble opinion). Steve Higginbotham writes: > This is not really relevant to my point, which was > that J-1 is too low to use as a favourable mod, since heavy traffic > systems will trade with anyone within J-4 probably. J-1 is too > restrictive an assumption for defining areas of heavy traffic. Heavy traffic systems will still be heavy traffic systems even if they are isolated; there is a certain amount of traffic which travels farther than most. The difference works out to about 4 "points" of traffic density. How this translates into numbers and tons of ships depends on your interpretation of the traffic density chart, and how you divide up the traffic. A workable interpretation would be to take the total "trade partners" DM (which can range from -2 to +12, and is typically +4) and compare it to the traffic level. If the DM is negative, almost all (at least 95%) of the traffic is "long-distance". If the DM is larger than the trade level, almost all (at least 95%) of the trade is "local". If the DM is positive and less than the trade leve), the ratio of the "trade partners" DM to the traffic level shows the ratio between short and long distance trade. If the DM is zero, the amount of local trade is small (less than 1 / traffic level), but greater than if the DM were negative. For example, Regina has a trade level of 14 (E), and its partners DM is +3. About 3/14ths, or about 21% of its trade is with local partners, and the balance of 79% goes farther than the next parsec or two. Rebellion-Era Promise with a trade level of 14, and a partners DM of +4 is about the same: 29% of the traffic is local, and 71% is long-distance. During the Hard Times, this shifts dramatically, to a new trade level of 7, and a partners DM of 0. Nearly all of it's trade is "long distance": presumably to that relatively undamaged agricultural world at the other end of the League of Promise. The local trade (probably to the nearby agricultural world) is less than 1/7th of Promise's trade (over 5% but under 14%, pick any reasonable number). [email removed] - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future