Gentlesophonts:
From Thursday night, Jeff Zeitlin [email removed] writes:
> survive without the "backwaters" of western Wisconsin, or upstate
> New York, where there are a lot of dairy farms, or the
> "backwaters" of central Nebraska and South Dakota, where a lot of
> wheat is grown?
Hmmm, an interesting image: `rural ghetto' that doesn't sound all that
bad now. I guess I'm confused. What exactly, then, is the problem with
being `ghettoized'?
> No, I'm not saying that worlds without a tech affinity are the
> ones that are going to be ghettoized. I'm saying that the ones
> that are "forced" to focus their production to service the needs
> of the planets that (re)acquire tech early are the ones that are
> going to be ghettoized.
Okay, so `ghettoized' means something akin to `exploited'?
> ~ QMPro 1.52 ~ You are in a maze of twisty subroutines, all alike.
Yup, that's how I feel. I seem to have forgotten the original point.
Maybe I should just concede you this one, Jeff, whatever it was. :-)
(???) [email removed] writes:
> <Collapse (or at least its nature) could be associated with
> the constitutional arrangements of the Third Imperium.> Not so much the
> constitutional arrangements as much as the Nobles forgetting who there
> obligations belonged too. Nobility could still be possible, if more
> requirements were fixed on the Nobles. The RCES 'democracy' could run
> into the same problems (just look at the general interest in term limits
> on elected officials).
I get your point but when I look at the `term limits' crowd in light of the
chronically low voter turn out I have to ask myself if it's the politicians
who have forgotten their obligations or the citizens? Remember, the most
powerful politician on the planet's term was prematurely `limited' in 1992
without recourse to any term limiting law. *That's* democracy.
Steven Gott [email removed] writes:
> Subject: The Jumpstart Caches
> Now Norris was told all of
> their location
How do `we' know this? Someone mentioned *Arrival Vengeance* but I looked
and I can't find it there. Does it appear in *AV* errata?
Ray_Pullar [email removed] writes:
> Also, the establishment of these colonies would be fuelled
> by a drain of people and resources from the Regency economy.
And there it is: Trask's Second Law! :-)
> The idea of an official policy of re-colonisation also has promise but
> this would come up against the public fear of the Virus making an incursion
> into the Regency. This would be easier to achieve if it was a secret,
> unofficial policy. Since the TNE manual describes the Regency government's
> secret attempts to create a benign form of the Virus it would be quite
> in character for this to be taking place at the same time.
Hmmm, doesn't all this government secrecy sort of bring into question
the suggestions that the Regency is somehow more democratic? [Warning:
this is one of those areas where my Sense of Reason may be at risk of
blaspheming the Holy Writ of GDW. :-) ]
> a fierce political debate is currently taking place within the Regency
> about whether to attempt to re-contact worlds within the Wilds or not.
> Also there will be a fair amount of tension between the new Democrats
> and the Old Aristocrats as well as the pro-psionic lobby vs. the anti
> psi (anti-Zhodani) faction.
Okay, let's start identifying these factions. The Isolationists want to
maintain the Quarantine. The Expansionists want to move into the Wilds.
The Democrats seek to expand `democratic' values. The Aristocrats seek
to maintain the *status quo*. The Tolerants favor a relaxation of psi
prejudices while Santanocheevists oppose any moves toward accommodation
with the Zhodani. Anybody have other/better names for these groups? How
about other blocs that haven't been identified? What about Imperialists
who still hope one day to rejoin the Imperium and Autonomists who favor a
complete break from the Imperial past.
Alliances might exist between the Isolationists and the Autonomists; between
the Aristocrats, the Santanocheevists and the Imperialists; between the
Expansionists and the Imperialists; between the Democrats and the Tolerants;
and between the Expansionists and the Tolerants.
This is *so* cool!
[email removed] (Jeff Zeitlin) writes:
> T::>My sense is that public opinion in the Regency will be whatever the
> ::>leadership wishes it to be. Norris is (was?) nothing if not an excellent
> ::>`molder' of public opinion.
>
> True, but there are limits to that kind of ability. If you've
> seen a planet get sacked by a homicidal Virus-infected starship,
> you're _not_ going to be easily convinced that Virus isn't a
> threat any more...
Absolutely true (not the `limits' part though). The fact that the `Rape of
Trin' became wide-spread pubic knowledge [FACT ALERT: I don't have TNE] must
mean that it served Norris's purposes somehow.
> The threat that I was thinking of in my previous posts, that
> required guarding the Vargr border was in fact the threat of
> Virus.
This is a good point, as I mentioned in an earlier posting, but . . .
> This would also have the effect of slowing down the evolution
> and/or extinction of Virus in the Extents, making infection from
> the Extents a very real threat, even at this late date.
I'm not sure I understand this point. Are you saying that by taking
`longer' to reach the Regency through the Extents the Virus would somehow
be more powerful? How so? Wouldn't Regency agents have a *better*
opportunity to observe the Virus which would permit the Regency to better
develop counter measures?
> We who have Arrival Vengeance know that
> (b) he effectively abdicated in Norris's favor by
> entrusting Norris with the complete Jumpstart and Longbow files,
There it is again! *Please* tell me where in *AV* Jumpstart and Longbow
are mentioned. Just the page numbers will suffice.
> Given that Norris _does_ have a great
> deal of ability in molding opinion, and that he (and his
> successors) have enjoyed the support of an overwhelming majority
> of the people of the Regency, even a documented successor to Lucan
> or Margaret is unlikely to gain sympathy in the Regency
Wait. Roll back the clock 85 years. Substitute Strephon for Norris and
Imperium for Regency. What do you get? Rebellion. Hard Times. The
Viral Collapse. And yes, da**it, The New Era. :-)
> as they
> represent the part of the old order that "abandoned" the area
> "behind the claw." I would say that the "legitimacy" of the
> Regency is secure
Doesn't the very name `Regency' suggest a deep felt respect for that `old
order'? All the legitimacy of a `regency' is derived from that for which
the `regent' is stewarding authority. To me it is absurd that the *people*
of the Regency would forget what they've been `waiting' for all these years.
A great expansion of the background round robin!
Peace,
David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA