Sword Worlds Technology

Gentlesophonts:

From Thursday night:

J Roberson [email removed] writes:

> I don't find variable TLs too disconcerting, so long as the TLs are
> within 2 or 3 levels of each other.

It's my sense that the sort of geographic variations you've mentioned will
tend to decrease as TL increases because one of the effects of an increase
in TL is an improvement in communications and distribution channels which
tends to facilitate or enhance technology transfer.  Current TL discrepancies,
not only within developed nations, but among developed nations and developing
nations are closing and this has increased with advances in technology.

> I don't know much about the Sword Worlds, but to me they always seemed
> very faction-based, more akin to the Peloponnesian city-states than,
> say the Roman Empire.

This is a fair assessment, IMHO, but this very view seems at conflict with
variable TLs.  Again, if Sacnoth truly is at TL 12 while the other worlds
are at TL 9-11 then it ought to quickly come to dominate the entire
Confederation.  Remember, technology is at the heart of the `feudal
technocracy' of the Sword Worlds Confederation.


Bruce Pihlamae [email removed] writes:

>     A tech level advance is usually a fundamental breakthrough or addition
>     of knowledge to the society.  Other advances are simply refinements or
>     incremental improvements on existing technology.

Again, I tend to agree with this idea but it then again seems at conflict
with the variation in TLs in the Sword Worlds.  If a particular world in a
`feudal technocracy' enjoys a fundamental advantage over the other worlds
it should quickly rise to prominence.

This idea of a fundamental advance does need to be rectified with Hans's
point that in the Imperium campaign the ease of access to higher TLs points
to an economic or sociological basis for any TL rating rather than a basis
upon technological endeavor.  If I want to build a Jump-3 starship on Gram
all I need to do is jump over to Sacnoth, buy some blueprints (or hire a
shipwright), and jump back to Gram.  Since this isn't happening (otherwise
Gram would be TL C with a class A starport) then either I can't afford to
buy the blueprints (or hire the shipwright) *or* there is some social
reason why I can't do this.  You can take it a step further to say that
Gram doesn't have the TL 12 factories needed to manufacture components for
such a ship but can't I just jump down to Sacnoth and get plans for them
to?  So, it's not about access to technical knowledge because clearly
that's available.  One sociological barrier might be a border (Japan may
have difficulty competing with US aircraft manufacturers because it can't
gain access to the knowledge) but this shouldn't be a problem *within* a
particular state (Boeing in Seattle is hiring from the same pool of
engineers and buying from the same pool of suppliers as is McDonnell-
Douglas in St. Louis).


Hans Rancke [email removed] writes:

> David Johnson writes:
> >>From Wednesday night, Hans Rancke [email removed] writes:
> >>Perhaps the Sword Worlds goes through
> >>a regular cycle of booms and recessions with acompanying TL increases and
> >>decreases?
> >
> >Well, maybe, but that still doesn't explain the *variance* in tech levels
> >from world to world within the Confederation  -
>
> It does if one postulates that the individual Sword Worlds are on different
> cycles. When a world has a boom it produces TL 12 stuff and exports it; when
> it is in a depression it makes do with TL 10 or 11 stuff for the most part
> and imports what it has to.

Such variation in economic cycles from world to world would seem to suggest
that there is little integration between the economies of the Sword Worlds.
This seems unlikely to me.  Even if there is little political cooperation
there ought to be much economic cooperation or the Sword Worlds would have
fallen to the Imperium - or the Darrians - long ago.

> Their culture can perfectly well be homogenous in spite of TL variances of
> a couple of levels.

Well, maybe, but I find this unlikely for a `feudal technocracy'.  Technology
is a fundamental aspect of Sword Worlds culture.

> >Without it, one wonders why
> >Sacnoth, at tech level 12, hasn't come to dominate the Sword Worlds long
> >ago.
>
> Two possible reasons: 1) Sacnoth has its own ups and downs and just happened
> to have an up the last time the Scouts or TAS updated their world catalogue.

Well, if this was the case, why wasn't Sacnoth the capital at that point?
Leadership clearly fluctuates among the Sword Worlds so ought not these
fluctuations be tied to any fluctuations in technology?  Again, keep in
mind the `feudal technocracy'.

> 2) If, as I assume, a world can maintain equipment that is not too much in
> advance of its TL, then the other worlds can maintain their own TL 12 ships
> even though their TL is only 10 or 11 (though they cannot build new ones).
> Thus there is a balance of power.

Well, again maybe, but only if that balance of power doen't destroy any
of those precious ships.  If I were Sacnoth I wouldn't sell any other
worlds ships, fight them to a destructive stalemate, build some new TL12
weapons of my own, and set myself up as a TED, in a sense.  If the Sword
Worlds are as fractious as it seems, even if Sacnoth doesn't do this it
seems the next world to hit the `peak' of it's cycle would.

This entire `technological cycles' idea seems to me to be more and more
difficult to rationalize.

> Well, what do you think? :-)

I can't explain it.  I think the variable TLs in the Sword Worlds are just
what you get when you do random generation with a flawed system.

>         "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
>         subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
>         ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
>         to put down any military operations that threathen
>         the peace of the Imperium."
>
>                         ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

I've been meaning to say it for a long time.  I *love* this quote.  It so
wonderfully demonstrates the `provinciality' of all of us who `grew up' in the
Marches - both gamers and GDW.  Thanks, Hans.


Steve Bonneville [email removed] writes:

> Not necessarily true for Depot.  Remember, the UWP population value
> only reflects permanent citizens of the main-world.  The naval depot
> is spread throughout the system, and a fair proportion of the facilities
> won't be on the main-world.  Further, many of the "employees" at Depot
> will be naval personnel assigned there, and won't necessarily be
> considered "permanent residents".  We also know (from the Vincennes
> article) that Depot is the main TL16 shipyard in the Domain, and
> serves most of the military shipbuilding contracts.  Expect the tech
> to stay where it is.

I'm not so sure.  In effect, Depot is something like a contemporary
shipyard and naval facility or air base and aircraft manufacturing plant.
There are the employees and facilities of the plant and the military
personnel of the base but these folks do not produce their product in
isolation.  They are supported by a host of suppliers and contractors
at some remove from the site.  This support is maintained through the
infrasturcture of the rest of the region and nation.

If this infrastructure exists in Deneb - and essentially Vincennes is the
only source available - then Depot might continue to function.  Clearly
this would be a priority of the Domain and later the Regency.  On the
other hand, if Depot was previously supported by Imperial infrastructure
beyond the Domain then it might be more feasible to move these facilities
to Vincennes.

Remember, the entire premise of the Rebellion, Hard Times and the Viral
Collapse has been the *interdependence* of the various worlds of the
Imperium.  (My own opinion is that this has been over played, but then
I frequently find myself at odds with what is canonical.)  Thus, the
loss of much of the Imperium is going to be a severe blow even in the
Domain/Regency and this loss ought to be most severely felt on those
most technologically advanced worlds that were most closely tied to the
Imperial infrastructure - like Depot.

Finally, there is this issue of just what is measured by technology level.
The Traveller literature has long struggled with this but I believe the
most common interpretation has been that TL indicates what technology is
most commonly available in and around the world's starport.  This really
doesn't speak to me because it seems then that every world ought to be
TL 9 at a minimum by definition!  I mean *starship* are going to be the
`most common' technology at any starport.  Furthermore, this take is not
particluarly useful when interstellar commerce is interrupted and
conditions at the starport may change much more drastically than on the
world as a whole.

My own view is that TL represents the production capability of the world.
It's the level of technology at which most indigenous goods and services
are provided.  This sometimes gets difficult to explain due to the
variations and combinations produced by the world generations rules but
you must have guessed by now that I'm not one to abandon a rational
explanation just because it's in conflict with some ill-considered rule
published in one of the `holy books'.  :-)

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA