I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M
Date: Sent on: 09-Jun-1994 09:42am
From: Alistair Langsford
LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
Dept: Information Services
Tel No:289 7870
TO: Remote Addressee ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )
Subject: More Feudal Technocracy
David Johnson ([email removed]) writes:
<This is fine but you have to recognize the `inter-relatedness' of
<the feudal system. The vassals provide local resources (knights,
<taxes, etc.) to the lord in return for coordinated services
<(military protection). This is what distiguishes a feudal system
<from a simple aristocracy where their is no inter-relatedness.
Fine. That is what I am talking about - a Feudal system. I don't
mean an Aristocracy which has grown out of a system which is no
longer Feudal.
<> When it comes to
<> managing the industry within a noble's domain, the
<> staff are technical experts in that relevant
<> technologies. This last is the 'technocracy' bit. The
<> ruling classes believe in this method of managing
<> industry, which makes them technocrats.
<Yes, this is technocracy but it has no system of
<inter-relatedness.
Perhaps if I say that the technical managers are also vassals of
the noble they serve this helps? I didn't think I would have to
explicitly point that out, as I thought it was implied already.
However, with this proviso (ie technical experts being vassals),
you have the inter-relatedness. I think we have a reasonable
description of what -a- Feudal Technocracy could look like. Thats
-a- Feudal Technocracy, not -all- Feudal Technocracies. I was not,
by the way, proposing that the system I posted was the ONE TRUE
DEFINITION OF FEUDAL TECHNOCRACY. Just that it describes -a-
system that fits the term. After all, given Traveller's method for
classifying governments, the same government could be classified
different ways depending on which aspects of it are seen to be
most apparent by the typical traveller.
<It seems to me that what's happening (and not particularly with
<you, Cynthia, nor Hans) is that many folks are confusing
<feudalism with aristocracy.
Possibly. In my case I used aristocratic titles (Baron, Knight
etc) as terms to identify with Feudal systems from our own earthly
history that I am most familiar with, and which other people on
the TML might be more familiar with. Obviously I could have been
clearer by describing the importance of the mutual obligations
between vassals and his/her liege lord.
<Feudalism is based upon mutual obligations between the lord and
<his vassals. An aristocracy has no such requirement. In
<medieval feudal aristocracies these obligations were centered
<around military affairs.
I Agree so far.
<In a feudal technocracy the technocracy `buzz-word' shifts the
<focus from military affairs to industrial activities
I agree it can do. I don't agree it automatically does. The 'buzz
word' as it has been termed describes an approach to managing
industrial resources (see the definition I posted earlier). In
Traveller, technology and the industrial capacity for producing
high technology weapons is crucial to the ability to wage war. So
I think you can still have a high tech militarily centred Feudal
system which is technocratic in nature. From what I've seen and
heard the Battletech universe is a lot like this. Maybe areas
engaged in large scale TCS campaigns are like this too 8-).
<> As with TechLevel definitions, GDW created endless fodder
<> for arguments by mixing structural definitions
<> (Representative Democracy, Tech level of a given artifact),
<> with procedural or functional definitions (impersonal
<> bureaucracy, production level of a world).
<
<Yes, of course, we all must labor under this confounded burden.
<:-)
Which is where we are at the moment, I suspect. 8-))
To me your kieretsu description seems like it -also- fits the
description of a Corporate Government. You see it as a good
example of a Feudal Technocracy. Given Traveller's way of
classifying governments, there is no reason why it can't be both.
The classification you choose obviously would show what aspects of
the government are most apparent to, or which have most effect on,
Travellers. Which ties in with Mark Miller's article on government
types way back in JTAS or wherever ( I think it was JTAS ).
By the way, William White recently posted an interesting article
on what Feudal means to the XTML that is worth checking out too. I
thought it had some nice ideas for variations on the traditional
Feudal model.
And since we have gotten on to discussing government types, does
anyone else have an example of how they have interpreted a
Traveller government type they'd like to post? I'd certainly be
interested. After all, it gets a bit boring if all your Feudal
Technocracies and Corporate Governments start to look the same.
8-)
Alistair,
[email removed]