Various, ship design mostly

A thread of 4 messages, 5 November 1992 to 11 November 1992, in the order they were sent.

#4895 Various, ship design mostly

Wildstar asks:
>Just a curious question: is MegaTraveller your first exposure to Traveller?

No, actually.  I started with Classic Traveller, although nothing like
as seriously as my current campaign.  I did not, however, equip myself
with quite as many supplements as most of the TML: I did not get
Mayday, Striker, TCS, or any of the Digest Group stuff -- I suspect
the DGP material was perhaps less readily available in England as in
the USA.  My first introduction to the task system was therefore in
MegaTraveller.

On ship design:

>The major problem, however, has to do with circular calculations.

They're not really circular, they are mutually interdependent.  As I
implemented it, you can change the power plant output and the agility
will be adjusted; you can change the agility and it will find the
power plant size by iteration.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a two-level
design system.  I could really use a quick method of generating
designs in addition to the detailed one.  If GDW wanted to keep the
basic rules simple, a _Starship Operators Manual_ with the complex
design rules.

Your point about most players not having a computer is something that
has actually been brought home fairly heavily.  My programme was
written for an NCR Decision Mate V and although it ran MS-DOS on an
8088 the screen control characters were not exactly compatible with my
new IBM-clone PC -- I am faced with the prospect of a hurried porting
job in my copious spare time (hah!) and hoping the old compiler runs
on the new machine.  Meanwhile, I'm looking through the vehicle archives...

Now what I could *really* use is a Computer-Aided deck plan layout
system, preferably integrated with the design parameter system so I
could do everythign at once.  The characters in my campaign are far
too keen on boarding inoperative ships...

Martyn
- --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293--------------
SAS Institute, Inc: [phone removed]            H: [phone removed] (Raleigh, NC)

#4911 Calculations and CAD packages

Martyn J. Wheeler [email removed] writes:
> They're not really circular, they are mutually interdependent.  As I
> implemented it, you can change the power plant output and the agility
> will be adjusted; you can change the agility and it will find the
> power plant size by iteration.

Quattro Pro calls that a "circular reference", and there are several
such in my MegaTraveller starship design worksheet.  Because I use a
spreadsheet, I can customize it for whatever I want to optimize in the
design by putting a formula in the data entry cells.  For example, if a
design requirement is a certain agility, I put the a formula for total
power required in the cell for power plant size.  Then I go to the
summary page and press "recalc" until the thing either converges on a
solution, or "blows up" indicating that the design is impossible and I
have to try again.

> The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a two-level
> design system.  I could really use a quick method of generating
> designs in addition to the detailed one.  If GDW wanted to keep the
> basic rules simple, a _Starship Operators Manual_ with the complex
> design rules.

Me too.  One thing I would like is to be able to get the "advanced"
design rules for *EVERYTHING* in one book, so it's all in one place.
Everything from lasers and CPR guns to starships, aircraft, watercraft,
tanks, grav vehicles; all in one book.

> Now what I could *really* use is a Computer-Aided deck plan layout
> system, preferably integrated with the design parameter system so I
> could do everythign at once.  The characters in my campaign are far
> too keen on boarding inoperative ships...

I tried one of the available CAD packages several years ago.  I came to
the conculsion that it would work well, except for a couple of things:
First, I would need to sit down and create a library of parts for every
common object on the starship (chairs, stateroom furnishings, consoles,
hatches and iris valves, etc).  Then designing a starship would actually
be easy and fast, probably faster than doing it by hand.  Finally, I
would have to find a large plotter: dot-matrix printouts just don't cut
it, either in size or quality --- one of my pencil sketches would be
better.  Since I couldn't afford the kind of plotter I felt I needed to
do good deckplans by computer, I have up.

[email removed]
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future

#4922 Re: Calculations and CAD packages

Wildstar says:
>Me too.  One thing I would like is to be able to get the "advanced"
>design rules for *EVERYTHING* in one book, so it's all in one place.
>Everything from lasers and CPR guns to starships, aircraft, watercraft,
>tanks, grav vehicles; all in one book.

I like this.  Most of the people who want the detail will probably
want it everywhere, or at least be given the option of the fields they
want expanded.

>I tried one of the available CAD packages several years ago.  [...]

Now you mention it, that reminds me... When the Lisa (remember that
machine?)  first came out, we had one at NCR Ithaca.  I tried deck
plan stuff with it (Classic Traveller at that time), but never really
got beyond playing with it.  I suspect I could do something similar
with the current draw-whatever packages, but I could really use it
tailored for Traveller ship design -- I'd love a status window that
tells me how many "squares" of computer room or gunnery controls I
need to add, for example, or how much mess room space I have left.  I
doubt that the market is big enough to justify the software investment
for a commercial company, however, and I know practically nothing
about the programmability of current commercially available drawing
programmes...?

With the advent of laser printers (not that *I* have one), your
concerns about the quality of hardcopy output are probably less
significant these days.

(I was going to add some other stuff, but I'll put it under a
different subject heading, I think...)

Martyn
- --------------sasmjw@unx.sas.com----(Martyn Wheeler)----DoD #293--------------
SAS Institute, Inc: [phone removed]            H: [phone removed] (Raleigh, NC)

#4931 Re: Calculations and CAD packages

> From: Martyn J. Wheeler [email removed]
> Subject: Re: Calculations and CAD packages
>
> Wildstar says:
> >I tried one of the available CAD packages several years ago.  [...]
>
> With the advent of laser printers (not that *I* have one), your
> concerns about the quality of hardcopy output are probably less
> significant these days.

  I've done some plans with ClarisCAD on a SE/30 and it came out ok IMHO.

  Of course, I still have to compute the number of squares of each type of
compartment by hand and I've had some problems in making fit them into
something shiplike.

  What it does automate on the other hand is the drawing of the 1.5m deck
squares... (oops, hope they keep the 1.5m squares in TNE...) and once I had
a library of chairs, autogalleys and couches, the crew areas are rather easy
to detail.

  It is the drives that are the real pain.

- -bertil-
- --
"Ack! Phht!" - Bill the Prez