Skill limits for characters

A thread of 5 messages, 9 January 1993 to 12 January 1993, in the order they were sent.

#5100 Skill limits for characters

>From: Seth 'the Lesser' [email removed]
>[regarding the curious and little-known fact that the sum of skill points
>must be <= the sum of Int and Edu]

>One of the questions I've always had about that rule: If you finish character
>generation and you're over the limit, what do you do? Cross out skill levels
>until you're legal, I assume, but do you do it at random, does the player
>pick, or do you just stop adding skills when you reach the limit? It really
>ought to say somewhere.

Let me give my take on the matter (which carries as much or as little
authority as you care to give it, of course). In the Beginning, I was
able to keep my players from creating ridiculously powerful characters
because (a) Traveller didn't encourage that sort of thing, having a
somewhat more highbrow focus than most other RPGs (b) I imposed some
term limits to keep them from getting out of hand (c) there was an
unreasonably large fear of aging rolls, because before the "aging crisis"
was introduced, low stats = death. However, as years went by and I began
attending Traveller events elsewhere (like cons), I began seeing what
munchkins could do with the rules when they sunk their grubby little
paws into them, and I loudly applauded the limits when they were added.

(There are people, like Hans, who argue that they're artificial and
unrealistic; true, but I don't mind sacrificing a little realism for
the sake of keeping munchkins muzzled. Also, I think Hans's definition
and mine of a "minimally useful skill" are very different. However, I think
Hans's way around the limit is an interesting one, and one possibly
worth having in TNE, so I hereby ask him to write it up for the TML
so the GDW folx can see it.)

I use the limits as follows: philosophically, the idea is that over
one's life, one actually learns to do many, MANY things competently
well. I am a 3-term Scientist, and if you take the rules literally
I already have far too many skills to be considered a legal Traveller
character. The same goes for many other people here, I'm sure. The
way I deal with this is that there is a difference between being able
to do something AT ALL, or competently, and being able to do it WELL
ENOUGH TO GET A TASK MODIFIER. In other words, the gulf between
knowledge and expertise is a measureable one, and most normal people
(I have always had trouble with the idea that interesting characters
must be supergeniuses) have a specific skill set in which they are
outstanding, and many skills in which they are merely competent.

In rules terms, this is treated as follows: the Ref applies huge
minuses and greatly increases failure and mishap chances for someone
attempting a task with NO relevant skill training; however, the
acquisition of a level-0 in that skill removes the minuses and allows
only the usual chances for mishaps. (I also advocate the removal of a
stat-based default modifier for many skills, if not all of them: a guy
with no skill is not going to be able to run a Jump Drive, no matter
how smart he is.) So it behooves the character to have a few skills at
a high level, so as to be a strong asset in appropriate situations,
and many level-0 skills, to represent the many situations in life
where one learned something a long time ago but could call up some
basic techniques in a pinch. As a character ages, some skills get
rusty while others take their place. The way to reflect this in the
generation of the character is to allow the player to create the
character from start to finish and completely ignore the limits,
racking up skill points as quickly as possible. Then, at the end,
after mustering out benefits are completed and the character's Int
and Edu are stable, the PLAYER is allowed to decide which skills
to scale back to a lower level to come in under the limit. He
or she should do this in consultation with the Referee, who should
oversee the process and make suggestions to the novice as to which
skills are best at higher levels and which are sufficient at a zero.

I have never had any complaints from any of my players about how this
process produces characters, unless you include the occasional pimply
teenager at a GenCon who reads over the pregenerated stats for an
event I'm running and whines, "This guy is a WIMP! MY character has
level-6 skills in EVERYTHING and he's Level-13 Psionic and he has
Battle Dress and a Fusion Gun on each hip and flies his own Kinunir
that's been modified so he can fly it himself and...." <sigh>

- --
mike metlay                |
atomic city                | "Sorry, I think Mike's right. It *is*
[address removed]          |  'hrrr mooble eeble'...."
pittsburgh pa 15217-0675   |
[email removed]            |                          (j. mcmahon)

#5101 Re: Skill limits for characters

>However, I think
>Hans's way around the limit is an interesting one, and one possibly
>worth having in TNE, so I hereby ask him to write it up for the TML
>so the GDW folx can see it.)

I'd be happy to, but is that limit kept in TNE at all? Anyway,
quite apart from thinking that an average maximum on skill levels
of 14 is too low, I also think it strange that someone with an
UPP of CCC227 can at most get 4 levels of _combat_ skills. So I
use two types of experience, Physical experience = Str+Dex and
Mental experience = Int+Edu and allow characters to count
physical skills against their PhyEx and mental skills against
their MenEx. Then I place some skills (like _mechanical_) in a
third category (In Between) and allow a character to count
these against either experience total as they want.



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     [email removed]
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

#5111 Re: Skill limits for characters

  For the record, the central character of my old campaign, was a one term
scout with Navigation-1 and Pilot-2 (and a scoutship:) and he worked more than
ok. He is also the only character I've seen who has managed to gain skills
and attributes through the system in Good 'Ol Traveller.

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."

#5112 Re: Skill limits for characters

>  For the record, the central character of my old campaign, was a one term
>scout with Navigation-1 and Pilot-2 (and a scoutship:) and he worked more
>than ok.

Hmmm... Computing jump coordinates is Routine, unless I misremember.
Adding 1 for navigation and 1 for intelligence (if average) means he
makes a mistake in one jump out of six. If his intelligence is a bit
higher he only makes a mistake once in twelve.

Of course a lot of mistakes are just minor ones, but even so you're
not getting me to fly with him.

Even with skill-3 you fail Routine tasks once in 36, which is a lot
more than I'd expect for something that is routine, but...



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     [email removed]
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

#5113 Re: Skill limits for characters

> >  For the record, the central character of my old campaign, was a one term
> >scout with Navigation-1 and Pilot-2 (and a scoutship:) and he worked more
> >than ok.
>
> Hmmm... Computing jump coordinates is Routine, unless I misremember.

  Bzzt! You are talking MegaTraveller, I'm talking Traveller :)

  (BTW, he got more skills when we went MegaT: The zerolevels for one thing,
and some through AT's)

>       Hans Rancke

- -bertil-
- --
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."