Imperial Navy/Army Organization

I agree that GDW has been somewhat inconsistent on how the Imperial
military worked.  Here's my two bits:

Steve Charlton [email removed] writes:

>In my campaigns, the main military arm of the Imperium is the Imperial Navy.
>The Marines are part of the Navy, just as in the United States.  The
>Imperial Army does not normally exist, except as Army-level HQ and support
>units stationed at convenient locations.

I disagree about the Imperial Army.  IMHO, they're a fairly important and
much under-noticed branch of the Imperial military.  The Marines may be
the shock troops and Rapid Deployment Force, but much of the day-to-day
scut work falls to the Army.  They pick up the jobs the other services
miss.  They are the "UN peace-keepers" that keep fighting on balkanized
member-worlds from getting out of hand.  They're the occupiers who help
maintain civil order in the former Solomani Sphere.  They're the planetary
Coast Guard, who perform search and rescue missions when necessary.
In areas of unrest, they're responsible for the defense of member-worlds
within the 1/10 diameter limit.  When necessary, they're the troops that
go in behind the Marines to secure the planetary foothold they've made,
and follow it up with the type of force the marines aren't meant to deliver.
If there's a big public-works project to be done, the IA Corps of Engineers
are called in.  Note that at least seven of the eleven regiments of the
Imperial Guard were IA units, with the IISS and Marines providing one
each and a special formation of Aslan another.  (Note that these IA
forces under the General Staff staged the coup that unseated Styryx in
favor of Gavin.)

The IA is supported by the powerful, high-tech worlds, although recruiting
is universal.  Like the IN, Colonial Reserves and planetary or even
national armies are permitted...as long as certain unofficial but well
understood guidelines are followed.  In fairly safe regions of the realm,
they aren't very visible.  In the Marches and in the Solomani Rim, they
are a more common sight.

Note that the IA is a joint command, as mentioned in _Mercenary_.  It
isn't just the army, but also the aerospace force and wet navy.  The
idea is that the main mission is defense of individual worlds.  Because
of thise focus, levels above the individual world command are less
important in the IA than in, say, the IN, which is interested in the
defense of entire subsectors and sectors.  Furthermore, individual
units, while loyal to the Imperium as a whole, would typically be more
closely related to their host world than an IN command is, due to the
need for coordination between planetary government and the Imperial
defense forces.

The joint command system in the IA also means that, depending on the
mission and the composition of the troops, it is equally likely that
one would see a Vice Marshal as a Major General, for instance, in an
overall command position.  Wet navy forces would tend not to be
deployed as freely off-world as land or air forces, of course.

In terms of inter-service rivalry, notice that some of the peacetime
IA missions are broadly similar to missions that might be undertaken
by IISS Contact & Liaison teams.  This sort of dove-tail overlap
seems to be characteristic of the way the Imperium operated its'
military forces.

On another note:

>I'm lazy, so I like the cheesy simplicity of CT starship combat or the
>abstract comfort of High Guard.

Cheesy!  Heck, it was great, once you got past the trigonometry.  You
could play it with a handful of index cards, a calculator, some
mimiatures, and enough flat space.  (Oh, I suppose a tape measure and
dice would be useful too....)  Portable, quick, clean rules.
Although owners of the 1977 rules might notice that ranges seem to have
increased just a bit in the modern era. :)  At least we're now using
the metric system.

  Steve Bonneville
  [email removed]

Gentlesophonts:

Making a fine contribution to *Shall Not Perish*, our Regency sourcebook,
Steve Charlton [email removed] writes:

> I have always had a problem with
> GDW's ideas on Imperial military structure.  While GDW's structure is
> fairly straightforward, they forgot just how big and feudal the Imperium is

Steve then goes on with an excellent explanation of a workable, sensible
military structure for both naval and ground/planetary forces.

The question I have is just how is this different from the canonical
structure?  There are a few minor discrepancies (like subsector naval forces
organized into `groups' rather than `numbered fleets') but on the whole it
seems quite compatible with `official' military organization.  Admittedly,
it's the first time I've seen the Imperial Marines divided into Fleet,
Garrison and Line units but this is mere color.  The use of Imperial Army
forces only on an as-needed basis also seems to be consistent.  The
Imperium didn't rely upon mobile Imperial Army units to protect individual
worlds but instead left that to `indigineous defense battalions' raised
by and restricted to individual worlds.  Imperial Army forces were raised
at roughly ten percent of these levels for `Imperial' use.

My own take on the problem with Imperial military structure was the idea
of `separate' planetary forces - aerospace and `wet navy' forces - that
were distinct from the `ground' planetary forces - the `army'.  Since
distinctions between land/water/air/orbital transportation disappears
at Imperial tech levels (TL 13+?) it seems to me that military organiza-
tional distinctions should `disappear' as well.  I find it hard to believe
that the Imperial Army and Marines are not equipped for combat on a
waterworld or have to rely upon Naval or other aerospace forces for
close-air support, inter-theater transport and the like.

An Imperial Army (or Marine) unit should contain land, water, air and
orbital elements capable of dealing with combat situations in any planetary
environment.

In the Earth Colonies campaign, I've dealt with this issue by abandoning the
traditional `army' units types - infantry, cavalry, armor, etc. - for more
generic `planetary' unit types as follows:

Anti-bombardment units consist of guns, missiles, screens or other forces
  intended to counter aerial or orbital bombardment.
Bombardment units consist of missiles, airborne bombers, ortillery or other
  forces that attack from a position removed from the battlefield.
Combat Platform units consist of battlefield weapons platforms such as armor,
  air combat, ground attack, sea attack or other forces.
Patrol Platform units consist of mobile weapons platforms used for land,
  air or sea patrol.
Platform Carrier units consist of mobile forces used to introduce Combat
  Platform units directly into remote battlefields.
Transport units consist of mobile forces used to transport other units
  between bases or battlefield rear areas.
Troop units consist of battlefield troop forces such as infantry, cavalry,
  jump troops, robotic troops or other forces.

In conventional military terms, anti-aircraft batteries and ballistic
missile defense (SDI/`Star Wars') forces would be Anti-Bombardment units;
ballistic missile, air bomber and cruise missile forces would be Bombardment
units; fighter aircraft, tanks, and attack submarines would be Combat
Platform units; AWACS aircraft, reconnaissance satellites and some surface
vessels would be Patrol Platform units; aircraft carriers would be Platform
Carrier units; airlift and sealift forces would be Transport units; and
marine infantry and air cavalry forces would be Troop units.

The concept of the battalion as the basic military unit is maintained but
the idea of `battalion' is broadened to described a particular collection
of combat forces regardless of whether the `battalion' is actually a
`conventional' collection of troops, a collection of combat aircraft,
a collection of submersibles, or whatever.

> Just some thoughts... any sort of input is welcome.

Me too.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

Ooh boy, a real can of worms here.

David Johnson [email removed] writes:

>I agree.  Someone *please* dig out those *5FW* counters!

Hah!  Sure -- it's the best evidence we've got for the Imperial Army
structure questions.  (It's a different thread, but you did ask....)  :)

The counters in 5FW represent the Imperial forces that are space-mobile;
in other words, planetary army formations are only represented where
they have been "imperialized" and released to Imperial deployment.
(Someone else can look at planets, if they want!)  What does the
interstellar government have in the primary theater of operations?

* Huscarles:
     One elite regiment, tech-15, heavy lift infantry, deployed into
     its' six battalions.  (4518th "Duke Regina's Own".)  Details of
     composition are in _Spinward Marches Campaign_.  Originally
     Imperial Marines.

* Marines:
     Seven regiments, two of them elite, all tech-15.

No other large forces loyal directly to the Imperium are elites.

* Regular Army:
     Eight field armies, six corps, eight divisions, four brigades, four
     regiments.  75% tech-15, 25% tech-14.  Regiments are mainly drop
     troops.  Brigades are all lift infantry.

* Colonial Forces:
     RESERVES: Three field armies, six corps, five brigades, one
        regiment.  TL 10 to 15, average 12 to 13. Larger formations tend
        to better equipped.  The regiment is a tech-15 heavy lift
        infantry unit, however!
     PLANETARY:  Two field armies, nine corps, two divisions, one
        brigade, one battalion.  TL 8 to 13, average 10 to 11.   The
        tech-8 unit is the Esalin Mechanized Infantry Division.
        (Remember the "UN peacekeepers"?)  Both armies are from Porozlo
        -- the only world represented twice!  Assumed to be
        "imperialized" planetary forces since all here have planets
        for identifiers.
    Again, all brigades are lift infantry.

* Mercenaries:  Yes, the Imperium has this nasty little habit....
     One division, one brigade, one regiment, seven battalions.
     TL 12 to 16, average 14.  Five of the battalions are elites,
     including the tech-16 unit.

The marines are in first, easy to move to trouble spots, and are better
equipped and have higher morale, but most of the force is in the Army.
(Also note, because of this, the marines might get used more in
"peacetime".  Remember too, the technological background of the Marches
when considering the state of equipment in the regular and reserve
forces.)

>An Imperial Army (or Marine) unit should contain land, water, air and
>orbital elements capable of dealing with combat situations in any
>planetary environment.

Yes -- at the corps or army level.  But for best effectiveness, expect
to see the battalions to be a bit more specialized in their training.
Think about what such a capability would require.

Peter H. Brenton [email removed] writes:

>Ok, Now my questions.  How many combat battalions in an Imp. Marine
>Division?  How many companies per battalion?  Platoons per company?
>Troops per platoon?  Are companies combined arms? or are platoons?
>Is artillery organic to the Battalion? or the company?

Usually deployed as regiments.  When the 4518th was given to Baron
Regina, it was composed of two battalions of lift infantry, one of lift
cavalry, and one of jump troops.  It probably still follows Marine
doctrine.  There, some artillery is attached to the infantry/drop
troops, some to regimental.  HQ also gets a fighter squadron and an
_ortillery_ (planetary bombardment) squadron.  Organization seems
to follow the modern Western model closely.

>Space transport should be modular.  I envision a "Rodger Young" class
>Company Assault Transport which would be deployable alone, in pairs,
>or in hordes as a division.

Makes sense.  The _Kinunir_ is the closest thing that I can think of
that's been seen, but it's just not adequate.


   Steve Bonneville
   [email removed]