Re: Terra during the Long Night

From: [email removed]
>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen [email removed]
>>
>>The key lies in the centuries of the Interstellar Wars where
>>Terra and it's colonies were locked in a struggle with the
>>Vilani Empire, a potentially overwhelming enemy. Terra fought
>>this conflict under the auspices of a world government whose
>>combined forces would be too strong for any individual former
>>country to challenge. Any nationalists would therefor have to
>>resort to terrorism or possibly guerilla action. This combined
>>with a "you traitorous scum are hampering our struggle against
>>the evil Vilani Empire, jeopadizing the future of the entire
>>human race" line of propaganda could well relegate nationalism
>>to the same popularity as nazism and racism.

>  But the history of the Rule of Man could disrupt this:

I find it hard to dispute your arguments, because I find them very
plausible. But the key here is that we are not looking at Terra at
the beginning of The Long Night and trying to extrapolate what
might happen. We're looking at Terra before and after The Long
Night and trying to interpolate why things _didn't_ go the way
you suggest. So the answer here is that it could, but obviously
it didn't.

>                                                       The war was over.
>It was won. And then the newly aquired colonies almost the entire military
>of the victorious part says: "We're a new political entity. Bye bye!"
>  Imagine MacArthur establishing himself as military dictator of the West
>Pacific Alliance including Japan, Hawaii and all the territory inbetween
>including all US forces there and setting out as a totally independent
>political entity that regards the continental US as 'little brother':)
>  My guess as to a possible reaction on Terra when the Rule of Man cut and
>run is great disillutionment with all traces of interstellar government
>since they have shown themselves to be either hostile or indifferent. I
>don't think that the wartime 'we must stick together' mentality could survive
long after the threat was gone *and* the spoils of war was totally lost.

Me neither. So obviously the spoils of war wasn't lost. My guess is
that Terra became the regional capital for what was later to become
the Solomani Sphere and got _very_ preferential treatment from Dingir.
Remember, What's-his-name the First never called himself Emperor.
Imagine MacArthur keeping on making loyal noices and blaming non-
cooperation on "administrative problems". Would Congress want to
publisize their inability to  control him? Would Joe Public ever
realize the true state of affairs? Perhaps. But now increase the
communication lag to that between Terra and Dingir, and what have
you got? At least a possibility that Terra's reactions could be
kept reasonable. Remember, hundreds of more or less virgin worlds
lay around them ready to be colonized or dominated.

>  Judging from contemporary politics a big 'musical chairs' about that
>eternal question: "Who shall foot the bill?" would ensue.

I'm not saying all this wouldn't happen. I'm just saying that
if nationalism has become a swearword, then anybody would have
to pay lip service to the concept of World Unity. I wouldn't
say that slavery will never reappear in Denmark, but I don't
think it will be called slavery.

Another possibility is that Terra never lost jump capacity. I
don't see why they should have, in fact. It just became
unprofitable to trade across more than a few parsecs. Propably
Terra kept up contact with the nearest dozen worlds, exploiting
them to keep everybody at home satisfied. They would've fought
wars during The Long Night, yes, but with their colonies, not
between regions.

Oh, one more thing: for this to work, a stable population must
have been established, with population artificially controlled
at a given level.

>  Remember that we are talking about periods spanning hundreds of years
>here. Since ideologies that were totally outdated 45 years ago seem to be
>on the rise now, I see no reason why any ideology couldn't make a comback
>in 200 years let alone 1800.

True, lack of ressources allows the weirdos, the sickos and the
powermongers free play. But a sufficiency of ressources gives
the sane people a chance. Only a chance, granted, but apparently
Terra lucked out during the Long Night. The solution would be a
controlled populations _and_an_absence_of_rivals_.

>Imagine the debate on EarthNet some time after the Fall of Night:

>  "What proof does *you* have that the 'vilani' existed, you totalitarian
>internationalist? Do you have any eye-witnesses that participated in *any*
>of the 'Interstellar Wars'? We have let experts scientifically examine the
>wreckage on display in the victory monument and they found that it is a
>fake!"

:-D

>  Also note the large number of *ethnically homogenous* worlds all over
>Charted Space hailing from *ethnically homogenous* fleets of low-sleep
>ships from Terra launched during the Long Night or shortly before.

What fleets? The ships that colonized Old Islands Subsector were launched
prior to the invention of the jump drive. As for the ethnical homogenous-
ness of a lot of worlds I refer to my library data piece about National
Reemergence for a plausible (well, I think it's plausible) explanation.

>I cannot imagine them occuring if there were a EarthGov controlling military
>and strategic (like spaceflight) resources. And the fact that they feel the
>need to emmigrate from Earth seems to indicate that everything wasn't
>all that good there.

Oh, I don't know. There will allways be idealist and/or misfits. How
about people who wanted to have more than a child apiece? Try turning
your argument around. Would a region use ressources on outfitting
colony ships, if there were fighting/in danger of fighting a war? If
any colony ships were launched during the Long Night, then that
rather argues for a superabundance of ressources. Such fleets would
after all be a total loss to the economy with no prospect of any future
returns.

>PS: I'll try to give pre-Night Terra the 'Hard Times UWP treatement' and
>we'll see what the result is:)

That could be interesting ;-) But don't forget that there are
no Lucan the Nutter involved in the fall of the Long Night.

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     [email removed]
- ------------
"I know there are some people in the world who do not tolerate their
fellow human beings, and I just can't _stand_ people like that!"
                                (after Tom Lehrer)