Gamba stuff

Bruce sez:
I sez:
>So, what do we need for a large ship building yard?  Mainly
>resources.  Those resources are the material to physically make
>the ship, & the technology to make it work.

}YES. BUT. What you want is highly processed/refined resources.

Sure, but what you need to GET those processed/refined resources is
the Raw materials which are minerals and technolgy.

>The parallel is steel plants.  Now, most people would imagine that
>steel mills would be ideally located near large deposits of iron
>ore right?  Wrong!  Steel mills are ideally located near large
>COAL deposits.  The process of making steel requires more coal
>than it does iron ore.  (Pittsburgh?)

}If you take this "association" to extremes you end up with all
}computer manufacturers being located near large silicon deposits
}& I don't think that is correct.

Computers don't really require all that much silicon do they?
Ships however need large quantities of metals.  Those metals had to
come from somewhere.  It's a lot easier to have the metals in
system than it is to haul em in.

>Ok, now with economics still working that way, Ship yards need to
>be located near large mineral deposits & sufficient technlogy
>back there to build it up.

}WRONG.  You want to locate yourself close to a steel producer &
}you just stated that they are located near COAL reserves & not
}metal deposits (OR are you just being generic with "mineral"
}deposits?).

I sincerely doubt that TL 9+ industries will have coal furnaces to
make their alloys.  By 'minerals' I was referring to the raw
materials necessary to build starships.  Other than lanthanum we
don't know for certain what those are.  What's superdense?

}What are the large aircraft builders close to?  Given the costs &
}volume of material they process it is quite practical for them to
}be located anywhere that they can get their staff, electronics &
}metal alloys @ competitive prices.  They don't have to locate next
}to a steel works because they would sub-contract out the various
}components.

Well, I'll tell ya, If I was running a shipping yard, I wouldn't
want to have to subcontract to a company in another SOLAR SYSTEM.

>Galliard is one of the main ship builders of Gamba. The system has
>a rich asteroid belt with several drydock asteroids.

}So what your saying is that all the industry for refining these
}asteroids into usable alloys is located in the asteroids as well?

With a diameter of only 1600 km, Galliard is practically an
asteroid itself.  The mineral extraction is going on all over the
system.  You can do that pretty easy at TL 14.

}I suppose that the facilities to refine the alloys into electronic
}components & refrigerators etc is there as well?  This would
}depend upon the cost of labour & other costs so it might be more
}practical to drop the processed alloys to planetary surface for
}secondary processing.

Not all vessels can land.  Imagine trying to 'land' a Tigress class
dreadnought?  500,000 tons?  :-P  I doubt the hull has any stress
points for landing.  Zero G dockyards are nice.  Say the upstation
class A starport is one or more of these drydocks.

>Virtually all the population is employed @ the Galli-Yards

}Then who does the refining of alloys & building of electronic
}components etc or does your definition of a shipyard encompass
}all anciliary manufacturing as well.  In effect having a closed
}environment?

Yep.  The materials, refining etc etc are subdivisions of
Galli-Yards.

Wildstar sez:
}For me, the Rebellion was not even worth playing in.  We used the
}MT rules on several occasions, & the Rebellion background once.

You actually used the rebellion?  HEY!  Look!  Somebody actually USED
MegaTraveller!  :-)      (Note:  The 4.5th War is in 1102.)

}Second, I assume that all Class-A starports are effectively @ TL-10
}and Class-B starports are effectively TL-9 (even if the world TL is
}lower; this simply means that spare parts & technical crews are
}imported from off-world).

I disagree.

}(Scott "2g" Kellogg) writes:
>When I think about Class A starports, I have a little trouble
>sometimes.  I tend to envision large international airports:
>Dulles, Atlanta, BWI, LAX, Chicago, Heathrow, Newark etc.  Now
>those to me say 'Class A'.  However, not one of those has anything
>to do with manufacturing capacity.

}Well, from the Traveller rules, there is not much "official" difference
}between Class A, B, & C ports *EXCEPT* the availability of shipyards
}for construction & repair.  By extension, the class A & B ports have
}more traffic, as both a cause & an effect of their repair and
}construction facilities.


Class C ports don't even have refined fuel available.

>Point being, that the ship building yards may not always mean there
>is a large port or a large amount of traffic going in & out.

}Right.  But the Traveller port classifications measure not the amount of
}the traffic, but the facilities available.  Therefore, Lockheed's plant
}in California rates as a Class A airport, while Chicago's O'hare rates
}as a Class C (or Class B if someone has a fleet maintanance center
}there).

Chicago's O'Hare is class C?  No bloody way!  Class C means unrefined
fuel and 'reasonable' repair facilities.  No overhauls, no 100 hr
inspections.  To me, that means that the port is more like your local
airstrip.  (Say College Park airstrip for the DC & MD crowd)
Small private planes VERY small commercial stuff.  Class D is more
like a grass strip airport, with MAYBE a hanger.   Class E is a
farmer's field.

}Therefore, in Traveller, construction
}and maintainance facilities will tend to indicate where the
}concentrations of shipping are.

But remember, that the concentrations of shipping will tend to be where
the technology and industry are, which is where the raw materials are.
Thus shipyards attract shipping, and shipping attracts shipyard building.

World A has lots of natural resources readily adaptable for ship
building.
People come in to develop those resources.  The traffic starts
coming in.
Ship building starts.  Now ship traffic starts POURING in.

>Ok, now with economics still working that way, Ship yards need to
>be located near large mineral deposits & sufficient technlogy
>back there to build it up.  Technicians can be shipped in.

}Large mineral deposits mean lots of cheap ore or processed products,
}which means a large volume of trade.  Lots of ships means a good
}opportunity for starship maintainance facilities, & even starship
}construction yards.  Technicans & even pre-fabricated parts can be
}shipped in if the demand warrants the expense.

Yeah, so maybe not all the mineral resources go to making starships.
The main exports (other than ships) would be refined materials.

}The name "Galli-Yard" is a little silly, but OK so far.

You mean that with all the OTHER silly musical names in Gamba sector
I can't add one more?  Why don't we have a balkanized planet named
Guitar?  With the nations Fender, Gibson, and Danelectro?  Maybe a
world named Xpander?  Metlay?  :-)

>The Ancient
>Society of Engineers is a group of naval architecture and
>engineering students which claims to design & maintain ancient
>starships.  (Evidence is however that this is simply a group of
>drunken students)  :-)

}"We are, we are, we are the Ancient Engineers
} We can, we can, we can drink forty beers!
} Drink rum, drink rum, drink rum & come along with us,
} 'Cause we don't give a damn for any damn man who don't give a damn for us!
}    --- Traditioal Galliard Tech student drinking song

:-)  Now yer gettin' the idea!

}0109     Motet     C898735-3      AG   Y
}Obviously an agro world feeding Madrigal, & maybe other parts of the
}subsector as well.  Good destination for traders looking for an unususl
}cargo

How about the different nations of Motet are under the influence of
different food corporations on Madrigal?  TL 6 mercs running around
cowing the TL 3 locals with their godlike machinery...

}0110     MADRIGAL  B7989DE-6 S    IND  Y

}0408  Forqueray    A353546-B N    NI, P     Y
}The primary Imperial Navy base of the area;
}The Naval facilities are probably on a par with
}usual Imperial Navy practice: TL-14 or TL-15, including shipyards, a
}naval medical center, & probably a mothball fleet orbiting somewhere
}in the system.

I prefer Galliard as the main Naval base.  The Ancient site to
watch over, would be the reason for their initial presence, and
the higher TL of Galliard would be far more attractive to the Navy.
Also, having two mothball fleets in a subsector is a bit much.

}Civillian contractors will happily do work for private
}citizens, too (provided such work does not interfere with their Navy
}commitments); therefore this world probably has an effectively TL-15
}capability for starship construction & repair (but you will probably
}pay several times the normal rate for the work).

That is what I was trying to create for Galliard.

}0803     Weelkes   C112888-A S         NA   Y
}An source of adventures might be the increasing rivalry between Weelkes
}and Madrigal.  Madrigal can offer high-quality, relatively low-tech
}goods & a reputation for delivering on time & under budget.  Weelkes
}can offer high-tech (at least, high-tech for this subsector) goods, but
}is probably having quality-control & delivery problems.  But they are
}number two: they try harder.

Sounds like a good idea!

Traveller's News Service
Weelkes/Gamba  ?112888-A S         132-1104

A band of terrorists have destroyed the Weelkes starport shipyards when
they hijacked the bulk carrier Dulcet Melody.  The Dulcet Melody's
transponder suddenly switched to 7600 shortly after liftoff indicating
a hijack attempt.  When the tower attempted to contact the Dulcet Melody,
they heard gunshots over the radio.  Shortly afterward, the 10,000 ton
bulk carrier crashed in the Weelkes shipyard facility.  All traffic
control was lost at that moment, however there was the unconfirmed
tracking by the scoutship Cello of the Dulcet Melody's ship's boat
departing prior to the crash.
     There have been acusations by Weelkes government officials that
the terrorists were backed by Madrigal.  Madrigal has denied any
involvement but said that ill luck is the price to be paid by unbelievers
of the one true faith.  :-)

}>>0105   Fantasia  A99A522-8      NI   Y
}>>Large waterworld with either large colony or small independent
}>>population. Could be a co-op seaharverster outfit.
}>This is another one of the classic Traveller worlds.  Will someone please
}>explain to me how a TL 8 world can support a class A starport?

How about TL 8 spacecraft with TL 9 jumpdrives?
Personally, I *LIKE* the stuff with low tech spacecraft.  One of my
favorite (unused) ideas was a TL 8 starship.  A company had gotten a
hold of the original Hiver jump drive plans.  As such, they built a
fleet of starships at TL 8.  Problem was that the Jump drives often
melted down.  Thus ships had to have several backup drives.  And
remember, we're talking book 2 rules of construction here.  So, it
wouldn't be too hard.

}>>0110  MADRIGAL      B7989DE-6  S        IND        Y
}The industrial powerhouse of the subsector.
}Madrigal may even be able to fabricate starship hulls, hull components,
}drive mounts, weapons systems, turrets, & dozens of other fittings for
}spacecraft which can be fabricated with their technology.

Yeah, possibly, but who would want a bunch of TL 6 Steel hulls for
spacecraft?  If they are very late TL 6 they might be able to manage
a Gemini or Mercury type space capsule, or at BEST an X-20 Dynasoar.
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the Roughneck class spacecraft.

}So they probably have a strong economy,
}and enjoy a substantial trade surplus (and a law level that prosecutes
}you if you fail to utter the proper prayer after sneezing).

And unbelievers are seen as less than fully human?  That always makes
for fun...  :-)

}>Atmospheric taint would likely be large amounts of water in the
}>air.
}This counts as a taint?  I've always assumed that a taint was something
}which would be extremely unpleaseant @ very best, is usually harmful,
}and can be fatal @ worst.  Then again, I'm in the Washington, DC area,
}and we have large amounts of water in the air for most of the summer.

I worked in DC for nearly 2 years.  I count the atmosphere outside DC's
Naval Research Laboratory as 'Tainted'.  We were downwind of the Blue
Plains Sewage Treatment Facility.  :-P

Scott 2G Kellogg^Z